The end of suburbia.

[OhBeeHave]

Originally Posted by Andysocks

It's funny because they're so obvious. I remember in East Meadow any dead end street with a loop at the end (instead of just ending) would usually have about six to twelve identical houses that were twice the size of the typical E. Meadow house. And some even had curbside mailboxes, which is very un-Long Island, haha.

Very un-Nassau. There are many communities in Suffolk with curbside boxes.
The new trend is cluster boxes -- one large box with many little 'PO Boxes' within it situated at one spot on the street.

[sean sean sean sean]

Originally Posted by nbres

Original Towns: These are not suburbs. They have the greatest chance of revival. They often are in natural settings with classic architecture. Not to mention railway stations and even old trolley line rails in the case of Northport. These places include: Port Jefferson, Patchogue, Amity Village, Bellport Village, Bay Shore, Port Washington, etc...

Early Suburbs: Forest Hills, Jamaica Estates, Garden City, East Williston, etc...These are classic suburbs developed before WWII. They are highly desirable places to live. The homes are well built. Each home is distinct often from the others, but all work together in harmony. These places will never die out because they are located near railway stations and are in walking distance often of a main street.

First Postwar suburbs built in the 1940s and 1950s. Found Mostly in Queens, Nassau and some parts of western Suffolk. Examples: Bayside, New Hye Park, most of Plainview, Commack, of course Levittown, Sunset City in North Babylon and many other neighborhoodss. These neighborhoods were often built on a large scale, but have the following characteristics; curved streets, sidewalks, homes are spaced appropriately, a local elementary school, giving the neighborhood its character. The homes are well built capes, ranches, and splits (except for the Levitt homes which are mostly junk, but the master planned neighborhoods are unique). These areas are often closer to parkways and state parklands. I think these areas will become moredesirable because they are closer to the city (shorter commutes) and were develped with a unifying suburban vision.

Second wave of postwar suburbia. By the late 1960s and 1970s Suburban growth begins to slow down as the baby boom ends and the firstwave of energy and inflation problems hit the U.S. Quite a bit of junk built during this time period. Developers cut corners such as using aluminum wiring instead of copper. Also, fewer planned developemnts. Fewer sidewalks and neighborhood parks. Lots of high ranches and splits in less desirable locations for commuting. Look at Deer Park, Selden, Ronkonkoma, etc.. Many of those Hiogh Ranches are being chopped up into multiple rentals. Thus, begins the downward spiral of the neighborhoods. Outlook is not good for these areas.

McMansion LI devoped post 1980s: I thinks Long Island's McMansion exurbs are mostly found east of route 110 in: Manorville, Rocky Point, Baiting Hollow, Ridge, Miller Place, Shoreham-Wading River, Center Moriches, East Moriches, etc... These areas are most vulnerable to fluctuations in energy prices and mortgage rates in my opinion. However, there are lots of infill areas that were developed since the 1980s all over using the McMansion style development as in Holbrook, or Summerfield in Holtsville, or along rte. 347, etc.. These homes are of questionable quality and will cost a fortune to heat. Also, the commuting options are often limited to using just the LIE.

nbres, this is a fantastic post....right on the money! Isn't it funny how the "suburban planners" of a century ago seemed to have a much better grasp of creating efficient and attractive living spaces than what we have seen since the 1950s? I, for one, definitely think it's time to learn from our mistakes and get back to what works. There seems to be a broader acceptance of "smart growth" and "new urbanism" across the board, I think it's a big positive. No, we won't feel the crunch as bad as the spiffy McMansion communities referenced in that article and I know there are plenty of LI residents who want nothing to change but I think that's a product of too much nostalgia and an irrational fear of "becoming more like Queens". Nassau & Suffolk will most likely always be fairly car-centric, but I think we could enchance the experience significantly by creating more job centers out here and vastly improving public transportation. Let's see this Lighthouse project get done the right way and it could be a model for the rest of the island. This is pretty crucial in my eyes, because if they screw it up it'll take another 50 years to build something similar. In Nassau, Suozzi gets a lot of flak for his "New Suburbia" outlook, but I'm behind it 100% I think the guy may just have been slightly ahead of his time, and what gets lambasted now will be celebrated as more Queens/Brooklyn residents move east and distraught old timers flee for the North Carolina time bomb....oops, I meant "time machine". Die NIMBYs, die...

Your only assessment I'd slightly disagree on is the first wave of postwar suburbs. There are plenty of these areas in Eastern Queens that have their share of problems. The majority of South Jamaica and surrounding areas (Laurelton, Cambria Heights, Saint Albans) fit this mold. Even New Cassel is asthetically not all that different from Levittown....but then again, these are areas that were hurt by other social factors which are now much less relevant (steering, racial tensions, white flight) and in the Queens County example, the complete disintigration of NYC - especially the public school system - as a whole during the 60s/70s.

You've been coming through with a lot of great ideas/links lately, keep up the good work!

[Redd Jedd]

Originally Posted by Glad2BHere

Not in LI I don't. I saw that video segment on tv. It really applied more to these areas with numerous new developments, far away from the workforce, not so much LI (think NC).

LI is very different that we have no land to develop, and most who commute into Manhattan already use the LIRR. So the segment really doesn't apply to LI, moreso these states where land is sprawling and people would move far from the major cities to purchase the "American dream" of affordable single family suburbian housing.

You are correct about LI having no land left to develop, but off the mark about other places, as mentioned in the report. Places like NC, VA and others have land to develop, not only for housing, but for business centers (think business parks), where class A space is considerably cheaper than in established city centers. These centers are built on the outskirts of cities, where they have the space build them and the roads to service them. This keeps exburbs as a viable option in many areas because the work force can be drawn from them and city centers as well.

Also, as mentioned briefly in the report, many developments are part of smart development where apartments are being built around and above business buildings, as well as being surrounded by condos and housing developments, basically catering to many different tastes. Some are full blown walk-able business park/living communities, while some are residential shopping centers like you would find in Levittown.

This report really does not take into consideration the development of this smart building and the fact that not everyone lives 30 miles from their job. And while you can't slot LI into what most of this report was suggesting, it has its own problems - as it was pointed out, the LIRR is not built out in Suffolk to extent it is in Nassau, and it really is designed to commute into Manhattan. This doesn't help those who work in areas where it doesn't go to. The fact that there is no place left to build, leaves most who need a high paying job to commute to Manhattan. At least in Northern NJ, there are a lot of large employers as an alternative.