The Los Angeles Homeless Containment Thread (metro, roach, classes)

[LuvSouthOC]

Originally Posted by pittsflyer

After reading the drivel on here I hope socialism comes sooner than later, I know the younger generation is pushing for it. Maybe all the vultures on here posting can move to China and then we can slap a tariff on your crap, have fun breathing the smog.

Dear millennials, communism isn’t cool

https://www.ocregister.com/2017/11/1...ism-isnt-cool/

Good luck with your dream. Communism is a train wreck.

[Matadora]

Originally Posted by 2sleepy

I know what is involved in the 5150 process because I had to deal with it when I worked in law enforcement. 647e is a law related to the possession of an open container of alcohol. It is an infraction which means you would be issued a citation, like you would receive for a speeding violation but you are not arrested and taken to jail.

Nope! You clearly don't know your CA laws as much as you think you do.

647(e) states:

(5) Notwithstanding paragraphs (1) to (3), inclusive, this subdivision does not apply to a child under 18 years of age who is alleged to have engaged in conduct to receive money or other consideration that would, if committed by an adult, violate this subdivision. A commercially exploited child under this paragraph may be adjudged a dependent child of the court pursuant to paragraph (2) of subdivision (b) of Section 300 of the Welfare and Institutions Code and may be taken into temporary custody pursuant to subdivision (a) of Section 305 of the Welfare and Institutions Code, if the conditions allowing temporary custody without warrant are met.

(c) Who accosts other persons in any public place or in any place open to the public for the purpose of begging or soliciting alms.

(d) Who loiters in or about any toilet open to the public for the purpose of engaging in or soliciting any lewd or lascivious or any unlawful act.

(e) Who lodges in any building, structure, vehicle, or place, whether public or private, without the permission of the owner or person entitled to the possession or in control of it.

CHAPTER 2. Of Other and Miscellaneous Offenses [639 - 653.2]

Originally Posted by 2sleepy

It doesn't really matter what you are "all in for" you can't change the law,

You said lets discuss some options. Those were my options.

Originally Posted by 2sleepy

if you feel it should be changed I strongly encourage you to contact your local and state representatives.

I've been involved in that process for over a year now.

[Matadora]

Originally Posted by CA4Now

Nationally, 13 to 15% of homeless people have serious mental illnesses. In Los Angeles County, it's estimated to be about 30%.

Mental illness and homelessness are connected. But not how you might think

I'm looking at SF stats.

41% say that have drug or alcohol addiction, 39% claim mental health issues

2017 San Francisco 'Homeless Census' Reveals That Despite Numbers, Things Are Worse, Not Better

[LuvSouthOC]

Who spends billions a year cleaning up filth?

For starters, San Francisco does!

And which constitutional amendment guarantees you those rights?

Amendment?

See the preamble:

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.


Justice requires enforcing the common law which also promotes general welfare. The Founding Fathers understood this to include enjoining public drunkenness, disallowing trespassing, stopping vagrancy, and preventing loitering so as to ensure that the rightful owners of the land (whether private or public) could seek quiet enjoyment.

The government was understood to do these things with police power.

[Matadora]

Originally Posted by pittsflyer

After reading the drivel on here I hope socialism comes sooner than later, I know the younger generation is pushing for it. Maybe all the vultures on here posting can move to China and then we can slap a tariff on your crap, have fun breathing the smog.

You clearly need a history lesson and in fact there is a current lesson you should be aware of that shows why Socialism is a failure.

Perhaps the socialist vulture that you claim to be should fly over to those countries who have recently collapsed economically under socialism and enjoy their failings alongside them.

Did you miss History or did they stop teaching it in school?

[2sleepy]

Originally Posted by Matadora

Nope! You clearly don't know your CA laws as much as you think you do.

647(e) states:

(5) Notwithstanding paragraphs (1) to (3), inclusive, this subdivision does not apply to a child under 18 years of age who is alleged to have engaged in conduct to receive money or other consideration that would, if committed by an adult, violate this subdivision. A commercially exploited child under this paragraph may be adjudged a dependent child of the court pursuant to paragraph (2) of subdivision (b) of Section 300 of the Welfare and Institutions Code and may be taken into temporary custody pursuant to subdivision (a) of Section 305 of the Welfare and Institutions Code, if the conditions allowing temporary custody without warrant are met.

(c) Who accosts other persons in any public place or in any place open to the public for the purpose of begging or soliciting alms.

(d) Who loiters in or about any toilet open to the public for the purpose of engaging in or soliciting any lewd or lascivious or any unlawful act.

(e) Who lodges in any building, structure, vehicle, or place, whether public or private, without the permission of the owner or person entitled to the possession or in control of it.

CHAPTER 2. Of Other and Miscellaneous Offenses [639 - 653.2]


You said lets discuss some options. Those were my options.
I've been involved in that process for over a year now.

You don't understand 647. It consists of a number of subsections covering a number of different crimes:
647(a) lewd conduct in public
647(b) prostitution
647(c) obstructing movement on a sidewalk
647(d) disorderly conduct
647(e) staying in motel or lodging without permission
647(e) a open container
647(f) drunk in public
647(g) 72 hour dry out for drunk in public

I'm glad you are involved, if more people were then I'm sure things would improve

[Matadora]

Originally Posted by 2sleepy

You don't understand 647. It consists of a number of subsections covering a number of different crimes:
647(a) lewd conduct in public
647(b) prostitution
647(c) obstructing movement on a sidewalk
647(d) disorderly conduct
647(e) staying in motel or lodging without permission
647(e) a open container
647(f) drunk in public
647(g) 72 hour dry out for drunk in public

I'm the one who understands it just fine. In fact I had to correct your statement about 647(e).

You said:

647e is a law related to the possession of an open container of alcohol.

No 647(e) is about anyone Who lodges in any building, structure, vehicle, or place, whether public or private, without the permission of the owner or person entitled to the possession or in control of it.

[2sleepy]

Originally Posted by Matadora

I'm the one who understands it just fine. In fact I had to correct your statement about 647(e).

You said:

No 647(e) is about anyone Who lodges in any building, structure, vehicle, or place, whether public or private, without the permission of the owner or person entitled to the possession or in control of it.

I apologize. It's a confusing section I'm not sure why they put so many subsections into one law but this is the section I was referring to.

647e. (a) A city, county, or city and county may by local ordinance provide that no person who has in his or her possession any bottle, can or other receptacle containing any alcoholic beverage which has been opened, or a seal broken, or the contents of which have been partially removed, shall enter, be, or remain on the ...

The section you quoted, 647(e) (e) Who lodges in any building, structure, vehicle, or place, whether public or private, without the permission of the owner or person entitled to the possession or in control of it

Technically can be applied to people sleeping on the street but since the operative word is "lodges" a conviction usually requires that they erected a tent or shelter on a public place. But you have 58,000 homeless people in LA county, with no shelter space for 75% of them. How many do you think you could arrest for sleeping in public before an appellate court prohibits those arrests until adequate shelter space is provided? That is exactly what happened in LA in 2006 https://www.nytimes.com/2006/04/15/us/15homeless.html

You can't arrest your way out of homelessness, it's not feasible. The jail is too crowded to keep people locked up for minor offenses and the courts aren't going to spend money on even trying most of those cases. And there aren't enough cops to make a significant number of arrests. What some folks don't understand is that a day or two in jail means hot meals and a shower, if you haven't had either for awhile it's unlikely that you will be too concerned about being arrested.

[Matadora]

I took this photo right outside of a camp along my bike trail. Now tell me again sleepy how I don't understand the Penal Codes against camping on public land?

[2sleepy]

Originally Posted by Matadora

I took this photo right outside of a camp along my bike trail. Now tell me again sleepy how I don't understand the Penal Codes against camping on public land.

I'm not telling you that, for heaven's sake relax. Of course you can arrest someone for trespass or camping when the property is posted but unless you and a few thousand of your friends are going to sign up to become Reserve Police Officers there are simply not enough cops in all of LA county to pursue arrests for every homeless person. There is a town in Northern California that is very aggressive in arresting homeless people for everything and anything they can, including 'camping in public'. It's a nice safe suburban city so the jail has plenty of room and the cops aren't doing anything else so they play herding the homeless all night long, but the funny part is that in spite of all the arrests they've made the homeless population has probably doubled or tripled in the past 5 years.