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she was very liberal in her views and in the way she lived her life--visiting the sick and shut ins, helping the poor, caring for the orphans.
Actually, liberals leave that sort of thing to the government. There is a high inverse correlation between "blueness" of a state and charitable giving, for example.
This is not a slam on Maine or Liberals...and to be honest I have many libertarian veiws that are liberal indeed.......But
Forest had a Post earlier that basically stated that at this stage in his life he was tired of many things and was looking to focus more on "growing things" and more "personal freedoms".
I couldn't appreciate those sentiments any more. "Personal freedoms" are very importnant to me. And clearly forest has found what he is looking for.
But after living here for the past 13 years I have seen...in every election voters place more responsibility on government to problem solve and less on the individual. It is truely confusing to me as to why this is so. Has Maine always been this way?
After 20+ years of military service [14 years on submarines and 6 years of military law enforcement overseas], perhaps I am coming at this from a slightly different angle.
And sometimes my PTSD may kick in without much warning.
There is also a very large Jewish community in Portland.
The KKK was also fairly active in Maine. The abuse of Roman Catholics during the 1920's is fairly well documented. I believe the KKK staged a parade in Brownville Junction during the early 1920's. Leans a little more to the reactionary element that also existed in the state.
I have been told by locals that in the 90's a KKK leader who had achieved nationwide publicity lived in Old Town, I heard muffled references to a chapter of that organization being in Old Town / Orono.
I do not intend to sound mysterious, but I simply do not recall the details of what his name was, etc.
my father once told me years ago, there is no such thing as free,,if you are getting something for free, then someone else is paying for it.
the politicians,, spend monies we dont have, and spend and spend and spend,,its hideous,
we (the u.s.) has a 9 trillion dollar debt,,, do you hear any presidential candidate talking about it?? no way!!! they are actually talking of programs to drive us deeper in debt!! trying to buy votes,,,with monies we dont have. its disgusting!!
(stepping off soapbox)
i believe the perception of what is conservative/liberal has changed thru the years.
What is a democrat or a republican has definately changed but the basic idea of liberalism, conservatism, socialism, and libertarianism are stead fast.
The idea of volunteering one's own time, energy, and finances to help people in need is not a liberal view but I would say very individual. I hate when I here how liberals must care more about the people who are somehow disinfranchised. The basic idea of using the coercive power of government to extract wealth from a working person to give it to some else with out that persons permission or approval is not very uplifting to me. There is nothing nobel about it....and I still veiw socialism as basically evil.
=Forest had a Post earlier that basically stated that at this stage in his life he was tired of many things and was looking to focus more on "growing things" and more "personal freedoms".
Quote:
Originally Posted by forest beekeeper
After 20+ years of military service [14 years on submarines and 6 years of military law enforcement overseas], perhaps I am coming at this from a slightly different angle.
And sometimes my PTSD may kick in without much warning.
Maine is cool though
I do not think you are unique in those desires.....after all.....wasn't the founding of this nation based on those simple principles.
What is a democrat or a republican has definately changed but the basic idea of liberalism, conservatism, socialism, and libertarianism are stead fast.
The idea of volunteering one's own time, energy, and finances to help people in need is not a liberal view but I would say very individual. I hate when I here how liberals must care more about the people who are somehow disinfranchised. The basic idea of using the coercive power of government to extract wealth from a working person to give it to some else with out that persons permission or approval is not very uplifting to me. There is nothing nobel about it....and I still veiw socialism as basically evil.
But don't some very good churches do the same when they ask other members to help out so that others may not be so in need?
I think it is a wonderful thing that we as a state and as a country are able to help those less fortunate. I am not convinced that all people who get state or federal assistance are lazy malcontents trying to take advantage of a system. There are people throughout our country who are thankful that others are willing to help them out. I also believe most of them would probably rather be employed and enjoying all the self-respect that that kind of independence engenders.
Didn't Bill Clinton revamp welfare so that people could remain on it only so long before they were taken off and had to work. Please help me out, but wasn't that system completely changed during the 1990's?
But don't some very good churches do the same when they ask other members to help out so that others may not be so in need?
I think it is a wonderful thing that we as a state and as a country are able to help those less fortunate. I am not convinced that all people who get state or federal assistance are lazy malcontents trying to take advantage of a system. There are people throughout our country who are thankful that others are willing to help them out. I also believe most of them would probably rather be employed and enjoying all the self-respect that that kind of independence engenders.
Didn't Bill Clinton revamp welfare so that people could remain on it only so long before they were taken off and had to work. Please help me out, but wasn't that system completely changed during the 1990's?
Chuches do not use guns and the threat of jail time when you do not give money to them.
I do not see people being helped...I see people being fed, clothed, housed, and completly taking care of. Do you really think the tragedy of New orleans would have been as bad if it hapened in Boston or LA or NY. New Orleans was an extremely poor city and the majority of those people were on welfare SSI ect. They have no way of supporting themselves....they couldn't even leave when the hurricaine was coming and they still are there sitting in trailers provided by the government waiting to be moved again.
And yet I can't really blame them...they have no means of supporting themselves...no skills....poorly educated ect. The Tragedy of an event like that IMO had nothing to do with the race of the city or the failure of a government agency like Fema..(though the levy's should have been fixed)..its the expectation people have that the government is here to take care of them.
Chuches do not use guns and the threat of jail time when you do not give money to them.
I do not see people being helped...I see people being fed, clothed, housed, and completly taking care of. Do you really think the tragedy of New orleans would have been as bad if it hapened in Boston or LA or NY. New Orleans was an extremely poor city and the majority of those people were on welfare SSI ect. They have no way of supporting themselves....they couldn't even leave when the hurricaine was coming and they still are there sitting in trailers provided by the government waiting to be moved again.
And yet I can't really blame them...they have no means of supporting themselves...no skills....poorly educated ect. The Tragedy of an event like that IMO had nothing to do with the race of the city or the failure of a government agency like Fema..(though the levy's should have been fixed)..its the expectation people have that the government is here to take care of them.
Who threatens people with guns and jail time if they don't donate money? Do you also believe the government uses the same methods to get money for military defense, road-building, fire-fighting, police protection, etc? If we live in a society of millions of people we need a centalized sysem to order the chaos and anarchy that would certainly result if it wasn't there. For better or worse, that's why we have a government. Even cave men had organized groups who cared for those who could no longer hunt. Your argument was against socialism...that is exactly the philosophy used by churches. It has nothing to do with guns and threats. I think you missed my point.
The tragedy of New Orleans probably wouldn't have happened had they been prepared for what they had been repeatedly told was heading for that city. In addition, I watched TV for a couple days during that time, and I remember being appalled that TV cameramen were in there riding aound in boats, but there was no assistance from the government at all for a long time.
I guess we will have to disagree that the tragedy of New Orleans and Katrina was as a result of the residents expecting the government was there to take care of them. I don't think that was the cause at all. Nor do I believe the majority of the residents of New Orleans are welfare recipients. I think if you do a little research, you will find the numbers receiving welfare in that city to be much lower than you contend they are.
Last edited by BlueberryMuffin; 12-05-2007 at 08:50 PM..
Hey ladies and gentlemen, let us please get back on topic!!
Hurricane Katrina and its tragic implicatoins warrant their own
forum board, imho.
Took the words right off my keyboard.
For those who wish to discuss/debate political issues on a grander scale than specificly Maine, please wander over the Politics and Other Controversial Topics forum.
Thanks.
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