Bill submitted to allow Maine gun owners to carry concealed without permit (Hiram: schools, military)

[Maineac]

Originally Posted by TopKick's Girl

HaHa, oh Floyd, you're so silly! If you think any of US will allow our 2nd Amen. right to be interpreted in such a manner, you have some fantasies of your own. It will cause such a division, it will make Sherman burning Atlanta a campfire. You shouldn't be so quick to ban gun ownership. After all, it will be hard to continue running your mouth when all you have is a sharp pointy stick to protect yourself.

You're both wrong. One goes black, one goes white, neither willing to understand the underlying issues. Reality has shades of gray, unlike contemporary politics.

[Northern Maine Land Man]

floydDbarber ponders:
"Tell that to the slave holders of old...things change."

Not so much Floyd. There is a vigorous and profitable human trafficking business in our country right now. These people are slaves and slaveowners, just as much as existed in the old days.

[Submariner]

Originally Posted by floydDbarber

Tell that to the slave holders of old...things change.

Some things do change. Democrats of old fought to keep their slaves. Democrats today hate to be reminded of their history.

... Interpretation of "rights" change.

Many of our 'rights' have been whittled away into mere privileges.

... If "rights" were the case you wouldn't have families going hungry, homeless, and without healthcare.

There has never been a 'right' to being fed, nor home-ownership, nor healthcare.

[TopKick's Girl]

The fact you are willing to find any "shades of gray" in someone proposing to eliminate your 2nd amend. right bothers me more than Floyd's liberal blabber.




quote=Maineac;38745091]You're both wrong. One goes black, one goes white, neither willing to understand the underlying issues. Reality has shades of gray, unlike contemporary politics.[/quote]

[Submariner]

Originally Posted by TopKick's Girl

The fact you are willing to find any "shades of gray" in someone proposing to eliminate your 2nd amend. right bothers me more than Floyd's liberal blabber.

I was a NRA member, until in the mid-80s when the NRA did a flip and began pushing for gun restrictions.

Any group that says they support gun rights to get your money; but then also supports outlawing guns, is trying to walk in a grey area indeed.

[znlwovuhrjw]

I wouldn't support the NRA either, they decided to overstep their boundary and suggest that only some guns should be legal and then others should not be. I'll just bet more than a few people have been paid off.

[floydDbarber]

Originally Posted by Northern Maine Land Man

floydDbarber ponders:
"Tell that to the slave holders of old...things change."

Not so much Floyd. There is a vigorous and profitable human trafficking business in our country right now. These people are slaves and slaveowners, just as much as existed in the old days.

So given your logic, one is allowed to purchase a slave at Walmart along with pork rinds and bean dip?

Also the whole "rights are given"...given by whom? If you suggest a deity, I ask for a meeting with said deity to lodge a protest. This whole "rights" notion is further example of backward thinking and belief in sky kings and cosmic concerges that perform magic on demand.

[Maineac]

Originally Posted by TopKick's Girl

The fact you are willing to find any "shades of gray" in someone proposing to eliminate your 2nd amend. right bothers me more than Floyd's liberal blabber.




quote=Maineac;38745091]You're both wrong. One goes black, one goes white, neither willing to understand the underlying issues. Reality has shades of gray, unlike contemporary politics.

[/quote]

It's my job to bother you. Nobody's proposing to eliminate the 2nd Am., but boy does that kind of talky-talk get all the boys onboard with the rest of the party line hoopla. I've got a cold dead hands attitude with regards to my guns, but a bunch of woodsbillies with CCP's sitting in the local restaurant? No thanks. This is Maine. In 60 years I've never been in a position where I felt I needed a gun (well, a couple of bears that just made me a little skittish, and one bull moose) for self defense. What I don't want is a bunch of complete moronic wingnuts legally armed to the teeth somehow believing they're out "defending" people. Maine don't need that. Nobody does. So ya, that's pretty gray, since I'm firmly for the 2nd Amend. but think there's a big chunk of society these days that never hunted, didn't grow up with a closet full of vintage firearms and handguns, that shouldn't be packing loaded weapons. At that point, I start carrying to protect myself and my family from the "patriots."

[Northern Maine Land Man]

Martin Luther King's security detail all carried Colt .45s. They had a right to do that, just as do floydDbarber and I. If Floyd chooses not to carry, he better hope that somebody like me or one of the boys in blue are nearby when the time come that he needs us. We were born with that right. The right to self protection applies to people, a sow hog and a mama grizzly. It is in our DNA and applies regardless of religious affiliation or not.

As to the thoughts of our founding fathers, here is what they had to say on the matter:

Tenche Coxe: “Who are the militia? Are they not ourselves? Is it feared, then, that we shall turn our arms each man against his own bosom. Congress have no power to disarm the militia. Their swords, and every other terrible implement of the soldier, are the birthright of an American… The unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or state governments, but, where I trust in God it will ever remain, in the hands of the people.” – Tenche Coxe, The Pennsylvania Gazette, Feb. 20, 1788.

[Maineac]

Originally Posted by Northern Maine Land Man

Martin Luther King's security detail all carried Colt .45s. They had a right to do that, just as do floydDbarber and I. If Floyd chooses not to carry, he better hope that somebody like me or one of the boys in blue are nearby when the time come that he needs us. We were born with that right. The right to self protection applies to people, a sow hog and a mama grizzly. It is in our DNA and applies regardless of religious affiliation or not.

As to the thoughts of our founding fathers, here is what they had to say on the matter:

Tenche Coxe: “Who are the militia? Are they not ourselves? Is it feared, then, that we shall turn our arms each man against his own bosom. Congress have no power to disarm the militia. Their swords, and every other terrible implement of the soldier, are the birthright of an American… The unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or state governments, but, where I trust in God it will ever remain, in the hands of the people.” – Tenche Coxe, The Pennsylvania Gazette, Feb. 20, 1788.

And THAT is the only reason I'd consider concealed carry. To protect me and mine from the people that think if they have a gun, and have watched too much action TV, they can play hero. "Somebody like me or one of the boys in blue . . ." So, once someone has a gun, they're on a level playing field with law enforcement.

The 2nd Amendment has more to do with maintaining a level of power in the people versus a tyrannical government. Read your Coxe quote out loud and try to understand it. Not so wanna be Rambos can protect us all from the robbery in Denny's or the nut with a gun at VA Tech. That said, given the more recent "God Guns and Guts" and fawning over anyone wearing a badge as some kind of "hero," the militarization of U.S. municipal police forces has resulted in armaments on the order of the AA-12 and other weapons that are kinda mooting the underlying concept of the 2nd Amendment. Along with appreciable military surplus. Heck, most police departments will dress up all in SWAT gear at the drop of a hat. Society has changed, and not for the better. WAY too much TV. Less than 20 years ago my kids could hunt on the way to school in the morning, lock the shells in the glove box and leave the gun behind the seat for the day on school grounds. Now it's probably a felony to do that.

I'm all for the 2nd Am. I'm not all for every hawnyock hiding a gun under his coat thinking he can step in if a cop can't get the drop on a guy. That's just silly. Re-read the Coxe quote. Then picture 5 guys with the same way of thinking, but don't know each other in Dennys when a guy pulls a gun to rob the cash register. Cute little shootout. I see one guy at the register with a gun, another guy with a gun over there, another one over there . . . who do I shoot? Lovely little scenario. Don't need that in Maine.