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The proper right-wingers I know view woman more or less as property and/or, at a minimum, lesser than. They provide service; i.e., sex, child birth, child rearing, etc. Narrating Kraft as some hapless sexual deviant is very in line with this thinking, as it diminishes the real victim here - the woman enslaved providing him 'pleasure'.
Add to it his failure to own his actions ... even when video taped ... and, well, forgive me if I don't by the 'ignorance narrative'.
I don't know if that's "proper." I guess it's the difference between religious right and secular right maybe. I agree with you on the ignorance narrative thing though. I really don't buy it.
Because she is choosing to diminish the suffering of woman at the hands of intelligent educated men as a non-issue. The desire for sex is a non-issue, but not the actions, and Kraft is not simply a victim of his sexual desires. It's an extremely oppressive ultra-conservative position to take and expresses little difference from female-backwards theocracies like Pakistan, Iran, SA, etc.
I know to conservative-minded folk this suggestion might seem a bit absurd, but to secular people interested in equality of rights, it's a bit egregious. Additionally, Kraft denies charges despite the police quite literally stating they have him on video, so he's already taken measures to erode his own morale standing. His actions, during and post are pathetic, as are his apologists.
Uh, this sort of male chauvinism I've never known either political camp to have a monopoly over it. The left has a long dishonorable list of their own, not to exclude our own beloved Kennedys.
Location: RI, MA, VT, WI, IL, CA, IN (that one sucked), KY
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Originally Posted by massnative71
Uh, this sort of male chauvinism I've never known either political camp to have a monopoly over it. The left has a long dishonorable list of their own, not to exclude our own beloved Kennedys.
True, and the so called "left" in our society is rather conservative. Which is a big part of the problem. We have far right, and center right, for the most part.
True, and the so called "left" in our society is rather conservative. Which is a big part of the problem. We have far right, and center right, for the most part.
I see where you're coming from. I always think of it as "neoconservatives" and "neoliberals".
Yep, this is why I find it very naive to just think "hey poor old guy was just missing his wife and needed some relief." Of course there is something going on here. The cops thought so too.
Of course they knew what was going on there. We had some of this stuff going on relatively locally not all that long ago. Providence was semi-famous for Asian massage parlors that offered these types of services. In fact, it was legal there until 2009. This was during my college years, and I lifeguarded at a beach on the RI/MA line. The regulars (mostly old guys) would talk to us and each other and regularly joked about going to the massage parlors in Providence (wink wink, nod nod). Word of mouth was huge for business. So yeah, I find it pretty hard to believe that any of the men caught up in this didn't know what was happening.
Even if they didn't know trafficking was involved, do we really believe that anyone cared enough to do research beforehand? It's a don't ask, don't tell type of relationship. As long as any of those guys can reasonably say "I had no idea these women were trafficked!" That's all they need, and if they have that, they're not going to try and dig deeper.
True, and the so called "left" in our society is rather conservative. Which is a big part of the problem. We have far right, and center right, for the most part.
So you are implying that the "true left" (or those who pass whatever your litmus test is), are universally a bunch of equality/gentlemanly/goody-goody-two-shoes? Do you really want to go there??? Has absolutely nothing to do with politics.
Uh, this sort of male chauvinism I've never known either political camp to have a monopoly over it. The left has a long dishonorable list of their own, not to exclude our own beloved Kennedys.
I'm talking ideology, not party. I don't view someone like Bill Clinton through a secular progressive lens, despite party affiliations.
Of course they knew what was going on there. We had some of this stuff going on relatively locally not all that long ago. Providence was semi-famous for Asian massage parlors that offered these types of services. In fact, it was legal there until 2009. This was during my college years, and I lifeguarded at a beach on the RI/MA line. The regulars (mostly old guys) would talk to us and each other and regularly joked about going to the massage parlors in Providence (wink wink, nod nod). Word of mouth was huge for business. So yeah, I find it pretty hard to believe that any of the men caught up in this didn't know what was happening.
Even if they didn't know trafficking was involved, do we really believe that anyone cared enough to do research beforehand? It's a don't ask, don't tell type of relationship. As long as any of those guys can reasonably say "I had no idea these women were trafficked!" That's all they need, and if they have that, they're not going to try and dig deeper.
The "Quincy Massage" is fairly well known, although from what I recall most of those busted were totally consensual.
I don't know if that's "proper." I guess it's the difference between religious right and secular right maybe. I agree with you on the ignorance narrative thing though. I really don't buy it.
Correct - I'm not talking party here, just pure ideology/theology. Painting Kraft as a victim is not a far in basic ideology from father's in Pakistan who choose first to kill their daughter over the perpetrator who raped them. It's a fundamental devaluing of female will and male responsibility. The latter is magnitudes more extreme, but the thinking which gets one there is shared.
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