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Jesus Christ, the contortions you're doing to try and defend Kraft and the traffickers would make Satan ill, and put any normal person in the hospital.
Mui is so entrenched, she cannot possibly see that her rebuttals double-down on the very ideology I'm calling out. As Mui (and Stalin) prove, one can be atheist and still be tethered to dangerous ideology.
I never said two wrongs make a right, nor did I suggest Kraft is absolved from moral responsibility. Those who defended him, said nothing of politics in their reasoning. It was YOU trying to draw a connection between "right wingers" as promoting this kind of ideology as though liberals aren't equally responsible. Nobody said the reverse.
A) you dragged out the politics charade before I B) I was very clear to point out that by 'right-wing' I intended to mean the opposite of pro-equality secular ideology. As another poster pointed out, I was not addressing secular right/conservative culture which is a separate despite the GOP attempting to populate both secular and religious camps under one umbrella. For those of us thinking beyond American politics, right-wing can be applied to any theocratic political entity - Evangelicals, Hindu Nationlism, all the Islamist groups calling for a caliphate, etc.
I don't see the left as turning a blind eye to this sort of exploitation, nor do I see the right turning a blind eye. I think both sides agree on the problem, but disagree on the solution. I think this is a classic ends vs. means debate. The left stance on the border wall and ICE is basically that neither go a long way toward solving the problem. The women in this case were brought over here and given actual work visas under the assumption that they would have legitimate work in the parlors. Obviously that wasn't the case. A wall wouldn't have stopped it, and ICE wouldn't be able to do anything about immigrants with legitimate work visas. The left wing case is that a wall and the presence of ICE do very little to stop/reduce this type of activity. The right wing case is that those things will help.
Anyway, I am pretty sure that most liberal politicians would be against prostitution in any form. This article ran in the Globe today. If you can't read it due to the paywall, it basically makes the case than any form of prostitution (trafficked or not) is gender-based violence and exploitation. I would argue that this is the exact argument you'd hear from AOC, Pelosi, Warren, etc. on the topic.
I actually don't have an extremely firm stance on the issue. I used to lean toward legalize, regulate, and tax it, but over the past few years, especially hearing more from women who have been in this situation (both trafficked, or "willing"), I don't feel so certain that it's the right way to handle it. Problem is, I'm not sure what IS the right way to handle it.
I wasn't referring to those simply against a wall in the sense that the cost outweighs the benefit provided (or those who believe resources would be better used elsewhere), heck even Trump and its strongest proponents acknowledge that it is not the "be all end all" and only one working part of a multisystem approach. There are certain however (including names I already threw out there), lately spouting the outrageous idea that there is no crisis in need of addressing. No child/sex/or human trafficking. No cartels. No terrorist groups exploiting the open border. No humanitarian crisis or children being dragged across the desert in 110 F heat. My personal view (and a very strong one shared by many) is that a new border wall make a very substantial dent in the problem, and in turn allow resources to be directed towards focus areas. It WILL make things safer for both our own country as well as those innocent caught in the unfortunate turmoil occurring south.
Regarding sex/human trafficking, ICE has jurisdiction over that regardless of whether they are here on a visa or not. They investigate and prosecute that stuff every day. Of course much of it gets missed like everything else, but they make a good dent in the problem. Most people are pretty uninformed (understandable) on the extent of the problem and the efforts being made to go after it, but these powers-that-be are totally privy to that information and have no excuse for being uninformed. I get that it is 100% politics (you didn't see Warren lashing out at ICE during the prior administration), and it's not necessarily a "liberal" view.
Location: RI, MA, VT, WI, IL, CA, IN (that one sucked), KY
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Quote:
Originally Posted by massnative71
I get that it is 100% politics (you didn't see Warren lashing out at ICE during the prior administration), and it's not necessarily a "liberal" view.
I did. Maybe you weren't paying attention. She was very much in support of the anti Obama immigration protests that were widespread in 2014 and even spoke at some rallies, not sure if that was 2014 though.
Last edited by timberline742; 02-26-2019 at 12:59 PM..
A) you dragged out the politics charade before I B) I was very clear to point out that by 'right-wing' I intended to mean the opposite of pro-equality secular ideology. As another poster pointed out, I was not addressing secular right/conservative culture which is a separate despite the GOP attempting to populate both secular and religious camps under one umbrella. For those of us thinking beyond American politics, right-wing can be applied to any theocratic political entity - Evangelicals, Hindu Nationlism, all the Islamist groups calling for a caliphate, etc.
I apologize in advance for bringing politics into this thread, as a few posters here have a notoriously bad habit of injecting national politics into completely unrelated local topics (and that can get tiring). But seriously...it's pretty well established that (many) liberals have a strong dislike of Robert Kraft. What's also the case, is that (often these same people) tend to have a let's say "apathy" regarding sex trafficking/human trafficking and such. It will be interesting to see if they change their tone with all this coming to light...
Many liberals, myself included, do have apathetic views toward prostitution. Why should the government and law enforcement dictate what people do with their own bodies?
This does NOT extend to apathy toward sex slavery or trafficking. I have never known a liberal who was apathetic about sex trafficking or slavery.
Where do some people get these ideas? Liberals disagree with you. We are not amoral
So after reading the 17 page document released today I am dumbfounded at the lack of ethics and morality by police in Jupiter FL and the national media.
Where is the trafficking , where is the exploitation? Why arrest the " victims" and publish their names? Why surveillance this spa for 6 months if they thought these women were being held against their wills. Six months Is a long time to let someone be a prisoner. Why go after the John's and not the trafficker, and stop the issue at it's source.
The police used a hot topic to try and ruin a person. There was no evidence of trafficking, none. The whole country is going after a 77 year old man who got a hand job. By apparently a willing participant, for cash. If this happened in Nevada we wouldn't have an 11 page thread about it. Every news outlet wouldn't be putting out story after story about it. False news story are damaging and destructive and should not be tolerated. There should be legal action taken , but instead there will be a new hot story to run wild by the weekend.
Location: RI, MA, VT, WI, IL, CA, IN (that one sucked), KY
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Quote:
Originally Posted by western mass and love it
So after reading the 17 page document released today I am dumbfounded at the lack of ethics and morality by police in Jupiter FL .
Never underestimate the lack of morality and ethics of law enforcement. Never.
(Not saying in this case particularly, as I've not read the indictment).
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