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I take the occasional flight out of Logan for work.
A lot of towns listed here have near-impossible Logan drives for a morning flight. If you're coming on on I-93 from the north, you at least have the option of cutting through Chelsea. It's one of the things I liked about living in Winchester (not affordable now at that price point) where I was flying somewhere pretty much weekly. Coming in on I-95 from the north also has several routes including 128-93-Chelsea. From the south or the west, a Logan drive isn't at all deterministic after 6am.
Yes... hence the dilemma! But philosophically I'm fine with a starter home. Maybe we trade up in 5-7 years. I suppose minimum requirements for the starter home would be:
3 bed, 2 bath (w 3 beds on one floor)
Quiet street
Small yard
Walkable neighborhood (even if amenities are not close by)
Great school system
Some sort of town center with commuter rail within short drive
Issue is that we've seen a few of these and they never have enough 'character' for the missus. Hence holding out (and maybe missing out).
Does that help?
I can tell you we're looking for about the exact same thing in some same towns (in our case, Boston/Brookline/Newton, possibly a Lexington/Belmont/Arlington), with the only real difference being we want near the T rather than commuter rail if possible. Our budget is about double yours and we're struggling to find a home in these neighborhoods that doesn't have a fatal flaw or need a quarter million dollars worth of renovation. If you're wanting a roomy and updated 3 BD/2BA, the realistic budget needed for inside-128 is approaching $2 million for any town with good schools and a smooth commute.
One of the reasons these costs are getting so high is because the towns you're looking in have great schools and good commutes. All of the millionaire WASP/Js want what you want, so I would say there's not much getting away from them (or the price inflation) without giving up proximity to the city, schools, or a smooth commute. Drop into a town like Waltham with average schools and the price falls considerably. Drop into a town like Salem with a painful commute path and the price falls considerably.
I would say the question I have is what are you willing to give up and what are you not willing to compromise on? That will best narrow down your town selection.
I can tell you we're looking for about the exact same thing in some same towns (in our case, Boston/Brookline/Newton, possibly a Lexington/Belmont/Arlington), with the only real difference being we want near the T rather than commuter rail if possible. Our budget is about double yours and we're struggling to find a home in these neighborhoods that doesn't have a fatal flaw or need a quarter million dollars worth of renovation. If you're wanting a roomy and updated 3 BD/2BA, the realistic budget needed for inside-128 is approaching $2 million for any town with good schools and a smooth commute.
One of the reasons these costs are getting so high is because the towns you're looking in have great schools and good commutes. All of the millionaire WASP/Js want what you want, so I would say there's not much getting away from them (or the price inflation) without giving up proximity to the city, schools, or a smooth commute. Drop into a town like Waltham with average schools and the price falls considerably. Drop into a town like Salem with a painful commute path and the price falls considerably.
I would say the question I have is what are you willing to give up and what are you not willing to compromise on? That will best narrow down your town selection.
$2 million for a 3BD inside of 128 w/ good schools?
I'd go Arlington, OP. Has everything you want, with next door proximity. Downtown is an extension of Cambridge, while the neighborhoods are more an extension of Belmont. Alewife is right there, as is the bus service.
As the schools get better, the diversity will continue to grow. But, the town already has the "it" factor that you're looking for.
Concord would be a great pick too, though it's very different than Arlington in style. Concord is an art and theatre focused community. Think affluence, prius', farmers markets, specialty stores, "foodie" restaurants, well funded school programs, and a number of art centers like the Umbrella Community Center. Always feels like there is a level of intellectualism in Concord that you just don't find in a lot of places. Acton is similar, though it's far more Asian and seems to be more STEM focused, like Lexington.
7bed 6.5 bath, 2019 construction, heated 2 car garage.
I think $2 million is a gross exaggeration.
That’s also nowhere near the T nor in a particularly walkable part of town. Drop that same house near Newton Center on a quiet side street and it goes up several hundred thousand dollars. Same deal with Brookline - go south of route 9 where it’s as bad of a commute as a West Roxbury and prices also fall a lot. Go north Brookline near Coolidge or the C/D lines and prices skyrocket.
That’s like comparing Roslindale to South End. Both are Boston, but housing isn’t in the same ballpark.
Yes... hence the dilemma! But philosophically I'm fine with a starter home. Maybe we trade up in 5-7 years. I suppose minimum requirements for the starter home would be:
3 bed, 2 bath (w 3 beds on one floor)
Quiet street
Small yard
Walkable neighborhood (even if amenities are not close by)
Great school system
Some sort of town center with commuter rail within short drive
Issue is that we've seen a few of these and they never have enough 'character' for the missus. Hence holding out (and maybe missing out).
Does that help?
In the towns with better schools, houses like that don't even come on the market. Builders snap them up and scrape them before they're ever offered to the public, and build 5000+ sq. ft. McMansions.
When a real estate agent brokers a "buildable lot" deal, they get the commish on the sale to the builder, or course, but they also lock it up so they get the commish on the $2M+ McMansion that gets built on the lot. No way they're going to put it for general sale and miss that second one. In the more in-demand towns, I can assure that the agents who are on top of their game already know every house on every lot that fits the "scrape and rebuild" category.
I lived in Lexington for 10 years and there's no way around the game that I could ever find.
That’s also nowhere near the T nor in a particularly walkable part of town. Drop that same house near Newton Center on a quiet side street and it goes up several hundred thousand dollars. Same deal with Brookline - go south of route 9 where it’s as bad of a commute as a West Roxbury and prices also fall a lot. Go north Brookline near Coolidge or the C/D lines and prices skyrocket.
That’s like comparing Roslindale to South End. Both are Boston, but housing isn’t in the same ballpark.
The original criteria was "If you're wanting a roomy and updated 3 BD/2BA, the realistic budget needed for inside-128 is approaching $2 million for any town with good schools and a smooth commute."...
Depends on the definition of roomy... schools and low crime are "mostly" similar in any part of Newton. There are outliers...
The original criteria was "If you're wanting a roomy and updated 3 BD/2BA, the realistic budget needed for inside-128 is approaching $2 million for any town with good schools and a smooth commute."...
Depends on the definition of roomy... schools and low crime are "mostly" similar in any part of Newton. There are outliers...
My bad for not being clearer. I had written this in reference to the OP's ask for walkable and urbane, with a good commute and near T/commuter rail. I have similar preferences in my house hunt, so I skipped past those details in my description, but to restate:
If you're wanting a roomy and updated 3 BD/2 BA, within the 128 loop, in a town with great schools, with a *smooth* commute (agree is quite subjective), a yard, and is walkable with a feel/vibe similar to Cambridge (where the OP is today), the budget needed is approaching $2 million. Give up walkability, great schools, the yard, or the commute, and that price comes down.
I'd put roomy at 1,500+ square feet, which at around $1,000 per square foot in the really walkable areas means you really need a budget of at least $1.2 to $1.4 million. If you want a private yard, off-street parking, or a good layout, those are going to be in the $1.6 to $2 million range. If you want a SFH, it's even harder, though it seems most of those are much larger than 1,500-2,000 square feet and are often either bought up and torn down for a McMansion or converted into condos and rented/sold off.
IME the biggest cost factor in all that is the walkability. If you want to be a 0/1 car family and have walking access to most services, plus T access to get into the city and be a quick taxi/Uber to the airport, you will pay through the teeth.
Details on our budget and wants... realizing this is the 'goldilocks' situation that many people face:
- $850k max. We have about $200k total in cash to work with (for down payment, closing costs, and a general reserve fund for the house). Want to keep our mortgage ~$700k or below.
- 3 bedrooms minimum, ideally 4 bedrooms or 3 with a flexible office/guest space. Need to have 3 bedrooms on one floor, and at least 2 baths total, one on ground floor and one on bedroom floor.
- Prioritize quality, character, and floorplan of the house over raw square footage. Generally drawn to older houses (renovated Victorians, older colonials. Want ceilings over 8 feet. The more moulding the better.)
- Doesn't need to be squeaky clean renovated. I'm fine with old appliances and cabinetry... we can improve that over time. Just can't have massive structural problems requiring near-term renovation (we are moving in with a small baby and a toddler).
- Location... we want it all! Quiet street, but walkable to a convenience store and to public transit (i.e. commuter rail)... playground or conservation land nearby is a plus...
- Needs some amount of yard... can be small... just enough to fence in to let young kids play with low supervision. Ideally a connected garage...
- My wife and I currently have flexible/work from home jobs but could anticipate needing to commute to Cambridge or downtown Boston within the next 5 years. I take the occasional flight out of Logan for work.
- Don't mind a commute but want a *smooth* commute... i.e. walk to commuter rail, 40 minute train ride, walk to office (or maybe T to office depending on weather). What turns me off about Arlington, for instance, is prospect of driving/biking to Alewife, parking, getting on cramped Red Line, transferring lines, etc. That said, strongly prefer public transit commute to car commute. Given the uncertainty of future commute, I'm willing to gloss over North Station/South Station distinction in terms of commuter rail lines. Recognizing South Station is more flexible, the Fitchburg line offers potential benefit of Porter Square station for possible Kendall/Cambridge jobs.
- Schools... realize this is hard to summarize or guarantee... but overall, looking for a high quality 'liberal arts' public school approach rather than high pressured math/science. I say that mainly to count out Lexington, based on the stereotype I've received (also lacks that commuter rail).
In terms of towns... this is what I'm really grappling with and need perspective:
- We've looked in Arlington, Belmont, Winchester, Wellesley, Needham, Concord. Considered Acton and Carlisle but too far out (though the houses are nice). My wife grew up in Westwood and doesn't want to be 'back home'... Needham is as close as she'll go (I really like what I've seen in Needham and value the commuter rail for that anticipated future commute).
- When we think of the 'culture' of the town... we want something of the urbane, intellectual character we enjoy in Cambridge (previously lived in Brooklyn and Manhattan). Not too monolithically WASPy. Not too in-your-face rich. Ideally some cultural diversity. A town orchestra? Community theater? Library, bookstore, etc? Yes please. We don't have much use for sports. So... Wellesley seemed too preppy/rich... Winchester also seemed WASPy and a bit sports-obsessed (I'm still open to it). Also hard to find much for our money in those towns. We missed a 'unicorn' house in Needham that was walking distance to town and checked our house boxes. Oh well.
- We have a notion that Concord has some of this culture... seems like a vibrant artsy community (with plenty of old money, but that's ok).. is that just because of the Thoreau-ian connotations? Please tell me.
- Arlington and Belmont get closer to the Cambridge vibe. But Arlington houses seem inflated... low quality overpriced housing stock, from what we've seen. Belmont we haven't seen much in our price range -- though possibly could do a connected townhome.
Belmont hits pretty much everything on your list with the exception of one big one - budget.
It is slim pickings at $850K - only 16 SF houses sold in Belmont in the last 12 months for that budget and many of these required a ton of work or were on busy street etc. But, you only need 1 house, so take a look at prior sales to see if any of those would have worked for you.
We are in Belmont with kids and commute to Cambridge, Back Bay/Downtown and love it here. Let me know if you have specific questions.
My bad for not being clearer. I had written this in reference to the OP's ask for walkable and urbane, with a good commute and near T/commuter rail. I have similar preferences in my house hunt, so I skipped past those details in my description, but to restate:
If you're wanting a roomy and updated 3 BD/2 BA, within the 128 loop, in a town with great schools, with a *smooth* commute (agree is quite subjective), a yard, and is walkable with a feel/vibe similar to Cambridge (where the OP is today), the budget needed is approaching $2 million. Give up walkability, great schools, the yard, or the commute, and that price comes down.
I'd put roomy at 1,500+ square feet, which at around $1,000 per square foot in the really walkable areas means you really need a budget of at least $1.2 to $1.4 million. If you want a private yard, off-street parking, or a good layout, those are going to be in the $1.6 to $2 million range. If you want a SFH, it's even harder, though it seems most of those are much larger than 1,500-2,000 square feet and are often either bought up and torn down for a McMansion or converted into condos and rented/sold off.
IME the biggest cost factor in all that is the walkability. If you want to be a 0/1 car family and have walking access to most services, plus T access to get into the city and be a quick taxi/Uber to the airport, you will pay through the teeth.
Your requirements are so restrictive that it has limited you to small handful micro neighborhoods within the most elite towns in Massachusetts. No wonder you haven't bought yet.
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