Coronavirus in Massachusetts (Boston: stained, available, surrounding)

[OutdoorLover]

Originally Posted by NewfieMama

I grew up in the midwest and have lived on the East Coast for the majority of my life at this point. There is most definitely a difference in how those I know in the midwest are approaching this and how my friends and colleagues here are approaching this.

Not that the midwest is all rural, but the more rural the area, the more autonomous communities are. There is generally just more self-reliance and people aren't looking for an authority to tell them what to do. They are used to taking care of their families and communities without much oversight. So when they suddenly have to authorities telling them their kids can't go to school, they can't meet, they must wear masks, they are much less trusting. Even my own mother when diagnosed with ALS decided to take her life in her own hands, stopped drinking water, and was dead in 3 days. Midwesterners tend to feel that they know what is best for themselves and their families and they'll do what is best without being forced to do it by others who are imposing their will on them.

My great aunts/uncles in the midwest who are 75+ are outraged that those in their generation aren't protesting that nobody asked them if they wanted the world to stop for them. I remind them that we are protecting them even if they don't want to, but it frustrates them that everybody is acting on their behalf without even asking them what they want. Very typical midwestern mentality.

My midwest friends are also talking much more about the cost of the policies we are enacting. In this effort to go beyond flattening the curve (the initial goal), to now basically saving every life, what is it costing us? The midwest has more small businesses that can't afford to be closed until there is a vaccine. They tend to feel that those of us on the coasts are myopic when it comes to the "save any life at any cost" mentality. They would say that even at this point the cure has been worse than the disease, especially in their smaller communities where businesses can't recover, people are out of work, and they can do nothing about it.

I think here people are used to living in a nanny state where there is much more acceptance around being told what to do. And I do understand that we rely on experts to give us the data we need to make decisions. And we feel that if the policy is informed by good data that is the most beneficial to the most people, then why would we question that? But while those here are mostly just listening to Fauci, looking at covid-19 data, and basing decisions on that, the majority of my midwestern friends/family is curious about the economic data around how many lives will suffer/deaths will be caused by depression-level unemployment, what are the long-term effects of the lack of education our children are receiving, where are the mental health experts to talk with us about depression, suicide, etc. that is an outcome of the policy we are enacting.

While I can don't disagree that attitudes towards the role of government play a role here, I'd also point to the fact that Massachusetts has had 5,141 deaths so far, while Ohio has had 1,436 so far, Missouri - 530, Iowa - 306. Massachusetts has a much bigger problem than most midwestern states, so the cost-benefit calculus on mitigation will naturally seem different than it will in places that have had much smaller problems..

[NewfieMama]

Originally Posted by redplum33

Bridge, why would it be any safer in the fall than it is now? Because states are gradually reopening? Because the numbers are slightly down?

The states are reopening for economic reasons, not because it's any safer.

It's not going to be any safer until there's a vaccine.

In my opinion, it is going to get a whole lot worse as places reopen. I mean, how could it possibly not get worse?

It might be worse, but places like Sweden tell us it can happen without overwhelming the healthcare system.

I'm curious, do people here think this way of life is sustainable until a vaccine is ready for the general population? We don't have any dates other than high-level "hopefully" 2021. And I'm still not sure why we should give a fast-tracked vaccine to our children who have a 0% chance of suffering from complications due to COVID-19.

[roadstrailstris]

Originally Posted by NewfieMama

It might be worse, but places like Sweden tell us it can happen without overwhelming the healthcare system.

I'm curious, do people here think this way of life is sustainable until a vaccine is ready for the general population? We don't have any dates other than high-level "hopefully" 2021. And I'm still not sure why we should give a fast-tracked vaccine to our children who have a 0% chance of suffering from complications due to COVID-19.

No, I do not think it's sustainable.

[Bridge781]

I don’t think it’s sustainable either but would it be sustainable if we continue life as normal or open everything up wearing masks and making sure there’s always 6 feet between everyone? Sure we could but what about cleaning surfaces? Who’s going to do that? After hearing that ice cream parlor story down the cape over the weekend im kind of suprised that many people went out for ice cream. I mean ice cream shops have been open for take out. Clearly people are going to go to places once they open.

[brightdoglover]

Originally Posted by Bridge781

Interesting that you would consider leaving the state if the schools don’t open in the fall. I’m really hoping they open but I will still be nervous. One of the reasons we just moved to the town we chose is for the schools lol. Just my luck that they’d be closed.

Is it all homeschooling or are there Zoom classrooms by the regular teachers? One of my friends is a Spanish teacher in elementary school in Westwood, and he's been working by Zoom with the kids all along (lives on Charles Street downtown, partner works in the COVID unit at MGH).

[justyouraveragetenant]

Originally Posted by NewfieMama

It might be worse, but places like Sweden tell us it can happen without overwhelming the healthcare system.

I'm curious, do people here think this way of life is sustainable until a vaccine is ready for the general population? We don't have any dates other than high-level "hopefully" 2021. And I'm still not sure why we should give a fast-tracked vaccine to our children who have a 0% chance of suffering from complications due to COVID-19.

Its all about money. The more people they give the vaccine the more money they make. They don't care about your kids or anyone else's.

if anything bad happened to any body in this forums kids they would not be able to sue.

I posted a conversation with a disease expert that has different opinions then Mr Fauci but it was ignored on here.
https://www.aier.org/article/lockdow...ohan-giesecke/

[Bridge781]

Harvard medical school will be completely online this fall. Just announced.

[mdovell]

I'm sorry but vaccines aren't a huge money maker. It isn't all about the money but simply living with this as a factor. We've seen changes for security all the time. After the Tylenol scare it led to better packaging, after three mile island there were improvements in the nuclear industry and emergency management/communications etc.

Why would you make millions of something if you wanted to keep prices high? The easiest way to make a higher margin is to make less of it, not more. only 3% of medical costs are vaccines.
https://www.skepticalraptor.com/skep...rofits-updated

You have to admit the profit margin isn't that high, especially after taxes.

[NewfieMama]

I agree that it's not all about the money--I'm not a conspiracy theorist. I just think we can't sit on our hands for a year or more waiting for a vaccine. And I'm not an anti-vaxxer--my kids get all vaccines and the flu shot every year, but I'm not keen on the idea of giving them something that isn't necessary to protect them from something that isn't dangerous to them. I don't see how it's feasible to put the economy and in-person learning on hold that long.

[massnative71]

Originally Posted by NewfieMama

And I'm not an anti-vaxxer--my kids get all vaccines and the flu shot every year, but I'm not keen on the idea of giving them something that isn't necessary to protect them from something that isn't dangerous to them.

I agree with everything else you said, but I think if we all want to truly defeat this virus and return to normal (a big part of which is reinstating people's confidence that is a vital part of economic recovery); then I can't see our kids not being part of the battle as well. That is based on what we know right now, anyway.