Do you feel that Massachusetts is Boston-centric? (Cambridge, Plymouth: college, living)

[Urban Peasant]

Originally Posted by tovarisch

I often wonder how different things in Mass. might have been, historically, if Worcester were the capital. Same with NY State -- Albany is the capital, and NYC the largest city, and a lot of folks in places like Syracuse and Buffalo wonder where all the money and attention is. I wonder if it's different in states where the capital is geographically central, for example, I dunno, Pennsylvania.

Yes I wonder too. Boston is one of the few state capitals in the U.S. that is also the largest city in the state (Atlanta, GA and Providence, RI are a few others that come to mind). IMO in instances like that, there is no question that the capital city exerts a great degree of influence on the rest of state, more than if it weren't the capital.

[missionhill]

Originally Posted by tovarisch

I often wonder how different things in Mass. might have been, historically, if Worcester were the capital. Same with NY State -- Albany is the capital, and NYC the largest city, and a lot of folks in places like Syracuse and Buffalo wonder where all the money and attention is. I wonder if it's different in states where the capital is geographically central, for example, I dunno, Pennsylvania.

Capital location is probably more a symbol than an economic factor. Having the capital in Harrisburg may have the effect of voters across PA not assuming all their resources are being sucked into Philadelphia. With Pittsburgh at the other end of the state there's some geographic balance between urban and rural interests. Even though there are big cities upstate, New York is so dominated by the downstate area that having the capital in Albany doesn't seem to stem the resentment or do much to stimulate the upstate economy. Columbia SC is very central and probably served well to mediate the huge class differences between the planter aristocracy in Charleston and the Appalachian upstate counties.

In spite of peoples resentments and suspicions, it seems much more likely that the big economies in places like Greater Boston and NYC generate resources that benefit communities statewide. Not the way people think of it, like an empire extracting wealth from the colonies to enrich the imperialists.

[Lampert]

There is also another big difference, both Chicago and NYC are very liberal cities while both upstate NY and the rest of IL are conservative. MA is quite uniform politically. I feel in today's hyper-political world this play a big in role in how the big city is seen.

I think MA and VT may be the only 2 states with "large" white liberal rural areas.

[Lampert]

Originally Posted by missionhill

Even though there are big cities upstate, New York is so dominated by the downstate area that having the capital in Albany doesn't seem to stem the resentment or do much to stimulate the upstate economy.

Just as a curiosity, is there any data showing that upsate NY pays more than it receives? I feel it's the opposite.

[mdovell]

Originally Posted by Lampert

There is also another big difference, both Chicago and NYC are very liberal cities while both upstate NY and the rest of IL are conservative. MA is quite uniform politically. I feel in today's hyper-political world this play a big in role in how the big city is seen.

I think MA and VT may be the only 2 states with "large" white liberal rural areas.

Uniform? Democrats in western Mass are looked as more socialist and from out west the democrats out east look like moderate Republicans. There's a difference between social and economic issues. I wouldn't say we have conservative regions in Mass but there are limousine liberals and the combination of CAVE people and NIMBY's.

[OyCrumbler]

For such a small state with a prominent center city and metropolitan area, it seems like there's a lot of strong regional identities.

[OyCrumbler]

Originally Posted by Lampert

Just as a curiosity, is there any data showing that upsate NY pays more than it receives? I feel it's the opposite.

Downstate New York definitely pays more in state revenue than it receives in spending and the opposite is true for upstate: https://www.politifact.com/factcheck...more-income-t/

It's not a massive, world-ending amount, but it is a lot. The larger issue and one that New York shares with Massachusetts (along with quite a bit of the northeast) is paying a massive amount of federal revenue and a truly tiny bit of federal spending in exchange. I believe MA has the number one or two worst ratio among states and New York has the worst absolute deficit amount.

[Lampert]

Originally Posted by mdovell

Uniform? Democrats in western Mass are looked as more socialist and from out west the democrats out east look like moderate Republicans. There's a difference between social and economic issues. I wouldn't say we have conservative regions in Mass but there are limousine liberals and the combination of CAVE people and NIMBY's.

Sure, but is still not the same difference than there is between Chicago and the counties that border KY. Although in all fairness the geographic distance of those counties from Chicago should be taken into account.

[in_newengland]

Originally Posted by chicagoliz

Eh, I guess so, but that's what happens. People in downstate IL think IL is too Chicago-centric. People in upstate NY think NY is too NYC centric.

People in the boonies always hate the cities, but without them, the rest of the state would be dead.

WMass is not "the boonies" though. We long ago created our own cities and towns and we have everything we need for the most part. For a few reasons, we do resent Boston, but mostly we never even think of it. We tend to forget that it exists. It's like living in a different state. Do people from Boston ever come out here? They don't because most don't know it exists, and you can see that on the threads in this forum. If they ever leave their bubble it's to go to the Berkshires for a Tanglewood concert (which they won't be doing this year) and they drive past WMass on the Pike. (which is fine with us, lol.)

[Boston Shudra]

Originally Posted by in_newengland

Do people from Boston ever come out here? They don't because most don't know it exists

That’s an interesting question: what percent of Big E visitors are easterners vs people from other parts of New England?

I can at least affirm that tons of UMass Amherst students come from Greater Boston.