Tell me about Pittsfield! (Boston, Greenfield: homes, employment, live)

[Lampert]

Originally Posted by massnative71

It wouldn't have to slice right through downtown, it could have followed the current 290 and bypass downtown to the north. Also, Springfield is served by I 91.

I thought you meant you wanted I-90 built on current Route 9.

[Lampert]

Originally Posted by Shrewsburried

Worcester's access problem is really an issue of A) who is likely to want access to i90 from within, and B) the torturous path the former must take through Worcester to access 290/90.

There is a reason, beyond the school system, why physicians and professors might buy in the 'boroughs, Shrewsbury, or even Holden versus the west side of Worcester ... even if sections of the west side are, from a housing stock perspective, on par with Brookline or Wellesley's nicer tree-lined streets.

My parents recently downsized from their large-ish Shrewsbury home, which had excellent 290 access of off Prospect St., to a charming mid-century neighborhood in Paxton which abuts the Worcester line right off 122. They love the home/neighborhood and Worcester restaurant access, but absolutely loath having to drive through Worcester every time they wish to head east, west, or north. It can easily add 15-25 minutes depending on the day and time.

I'm sure the wealthy households tucked into the west side would have preferred 90 run through or above Worcester, particularly those on the clinical side who might be operating out of multiple healthcare centers.

Yeah it's a pain to drive around Worcester (I like the exit on 290 where Rotmans is) but a highway above ground inside a city is always a big cut in the city fabric, it creates a no man's land that is often unappealing and not crossed by people living in the area. Just look at the effect of 290 (and the railroad) around Union station.

[massnative71]

Originally Posted by Lampert

Yeah it's a pain to drive around Worcester (I like the exit on 290 where Rotmans is) but a highway above ground inside a city is always a big cut in the city fabric, it creates a no man's land that is often unappealing and not crossed by people living in the area. Just look at the effect of 290 (and the railroad) around Union station.

It could probably been done in a way with minimal disruption to city neighborhoods, it gets pretty woodsy not that far north of downtown. Much less in the way than 290, for example. Not saying they should go crazy, but ONE good east-west road would have had widespread benefits.

Originally Posted by Lampert

I thought you meant you wanted I-90 built on current Route 9.

No ROUGHLY tracking, meaning basically covering the same cities and towns. The existing path of the Mass Pike was clearly not designed to serve any of Massachusetts west of Framingham. It pretty much skips everything.

[Shrewsburried]

Originally Posted by massnative71

No ROUGHLY tracking, meaning basically covering the same cities and towns. The existing path of the Mass Pike was clearly not designed to serve any of Massachusetts west of Framingham. It pretty much skips everything.

I agree. I understand the pragmatic reasons as to why they chose to not lay road through existing dense areas (cost/complexity), but it would have made much more sense to follow, grossly, a rt. 9 track in the west side to a 290 track in the east side (as currently) and better pickup towns like Holden, Shrewsbury, 'boroughs ... versus encouraging further sprawl in a town like Grafton.

[Shrewsburried]

Originally Posted by BostonBornMassMade

Yea ...catering to wealthy people in The suburbs and granting cars free reign didn’t work out to well for Hartford. Or most places. That extra 15 minutes is for the greater good.

Greater good? The city was already divided well before interstates and ended up with 290 regardless. All the existing arrangement does is ensure the huge suburban population in the west/north side of the city contribute to city congestion when their only goal is exit the city.

Not every problem is an issue of equity, sometimes it's simply poor civil engineering.

[Lampert]

Originally Posted by Shrewsburried

Greater good? The city was already divided well before interstates and ended up with 290 regardless. All the existing arrangement does is ensure the huge suburban population in the west/north side of the city contribute to city congestion when their only goal is exit the city.

Not every problem is an issue of equity, sometimes it's simply poor civil engineering.

I agree that it would be convenient for the people living there to have a fast road (I knew a person commuting from around the airport to around White City in Shrewsbury and it was 35-40 min) but there isn't really a huge population west and north of Worcester that doesn't have access to 190. It's pretty much Paxton and Spencer. There is also the issue of the airport, but you could make a connection from the South, without going trough the city.

[OutdoorLover]

Originally Posted by FCMA

Yeah the overall Berkshires have long been little more than a second home annex of NYers, with a few tired factory towns marring the views.

Back in the 17th to early 18th century, Western Mass was just being settled by colonists so I guess they were “pioneers” of the era. The natives they stole the land from came back for revenge frequently with help from the French way up in Montreal since at that time places like Agawam, Hadley, and Deerfield were among the nearest settlements of British-origin colonists, the Deerfield raid of 1704 for example.

It’s interesting how relative things are in New England states. In MA, Greenfield is a fairly anonymous perfectly pleasant if slightly drug-addled backwater of 17,500 residents, considered tiny and insignificant. Put a town that size in Vermont and it just supplants Rutland for third largest city in the state. To put in perspective how small the Connecticut River Valley towns are north of the Hartford-Springfield region, Greenfield is also the most populous town on the I-91 corridor between Northampton and Canada.

Yep. The western frontier started in the east and pushed further and further out west over time. It didn't begin in Wyoming. Here is a map indicating boundaries as of the Proclamation of 1763. The western half of what is now NY state was still indian territory at that time. Around the turn of the 19th century, that area was being settled and farmed for grains and was considered the breadbasket of the nation... until better farmlands were settled later, in what is now the midwest.

[FCMA]

Originally Posted by mdovell

Greenfield relative to size has a fair amount of things. Rail station, local media (print, radio), a community college, pretty walkable downtown, some interesting shops and bars and Poets Seat gives a pretty good view. The problems I see with greenfield is that it's still declining but not as fast as the berkshires. I91 and RT 2 save them from slow commuttes. There's been talk of rail from north adams to greenfield to Fitchburg which eventually gets to boston. That might be aways off given the budget issues.

The Quabbin slowed down development and the big dig siphoned off contractors in the 80's and 90's. To be honest the oddest one is New Salem. Look at the map and technically there's no bridges across the Quabbin. So if you live there at the end it's probably a good half an hour if not 45 minutes to go up and then possibly down. I'd argue it's like what Upper Michigan is to Michigan.

Greenfield is a nice, dense place and as the central nexus of its rural county, has more amenities than many suburbs similar in population size. Franklin County has the population of about Somerville, but as just one example Somerville had no craft breweries before Slumbrew in ~2011, and kids these days sure do love local beer, but at that point there had already been four for a few years tucked away in the “sticks.”

To correct your misinterpretation of New Salem, no one lives anywhere near the end of the tip. About 50% of the town is part of the Prescott Peninsula, where the town of Prescott used to be. That southern section of New Salem has long been an area off-limits to the public in the Quabbin reservation. Some research facilities are out there and some logging happens that makes hippies mad. I got an escort once to inspect a rare plant population out there and had to be escorted by a DCR ranger truck over the old town roads of Prescott. Area is under total lockdown.

[Lampert]

Originally Posted by FCMA

I got an escort once to inspect a rare plant population out there and had to be escorted by a DCR ranger truck over the old town roads of Prescott. Area is under total lockdown.

Sounds cool!

[mdovell]

Originally Posted by FCMA

Greenfield is a nice, dense place and as the central nexus of its rural county, has more amenities than many suburbs similar in population size. Franklin County has the population of about Somerville, but as just one example Somerville had no craft breweries before Slumbrew in ~2011, and kids these days sure do love local beer, but at that point there had already been four for a few years tucked away in the “sticks.”

To correct your misinterpretation of New Salem, no one lives anywhere near the end of the tip. About 50% of the town is part of the Prescott Peninsula, where the town of Prescott used to be. That southern section of New Salem has long been an area off-limits to the public in the Quabbin reservation. Some research facilities are out there and some logging happens that makes hippies mad. I got an escort once to inspect a rare plant population out there and had to be escorted by a DCR ranger truck over the old town roads of Prescott. Area is under total lockdown.

Reminds me of some of the other towns out there like Barre are pretty isolated. Barre feels like Vermont and it's easily a half an hour from anything. RT to the north and 90 to the south but no make north to south.

Water utilities are usually pretty strict.Springfield water and sewer made some areas off limits for a bit.