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This thread topic came to me while reading some of the posts in the recent "I Love Miami" thread that state the pretty standard complaints about South Florida, especially those of the "like living in a foreign country" variety.
The two events mentioned in the thread title are often cited as the two most tangible reasons why the Anglo middle-class evacuated Miami-Dade County throughout the 80s. I'd be intrigued to hear, especially from those who I believe to be native Miamians from what I've read on here, what they feel Dade County specifically would be like if history had been different.
I'm trying to conceptualize a Miami in 2008 that would be demographically close to what it was in the 1970s, which is admittedly very hard to picture, but I imagine that's somewhat what it would be like.
If the main Hispanic population in Dade County would have remained "Pedro Pan"-era Cubans and their Miami-born offspring, with no Mariel or the subsequent mid-90s "raft wave", would the word have spread around Central and South America that Miami was the place to immigrate to because of the predominance of the Spanish culture here?
If the majority of the Anglos had never left between 1980 and 1985 because the two aforementioned events never happened, would there have been as much room for so much immigration anyhow?
Would we see a much higher quality of service, etc., and would Miami be considered much more of an "American town"? Was it considered as such during the 1970s, when primarily the Cubans who arrived in the mid-to-late 60s and were very open to assimilation made up the Hispanic population in the county?
For the record, I am 36, born and raised here and still residing in Miami. Both of my parents were Cubans who came here in the late 60s. I remember the Miami of my childhood (the 70s) being considerably different from any other time after that, especially the post-1999 era.
I would be very interested in any and all opinions on this matter and am really hoping to see some of the forum regulars chime in on this one.
I am glad to be the first to respond to this thread. Although one could write books on the question you just drafted, I will try to answer it as well as I can. Also, the McDuffie riots and the consequent white flight predated my time on this planet by a couple years; however, I can give you as good of an answer as you're gonna get from someone who moved here, as well as someone who lives here and plans on living in Miami for the foreseeable future.
I think that had the McDuffire riots not taken place, there would not have been such an explosive shift in demographics. White and middle class flight out of Dade County would have been slower had the riots never happened. I think it is hard to believe that an African American population of 20.3% in Dade county alone would cause the mass exodus of the middle class without the added fuel of a riot. In my opinion, the McDuffie riots sparked the move of the middle class, and the immigration policy of the federal government during the same period -the same one that exists to this day, and including the policy that existed during el Mariel- has kept the wagon train moving north as far as the middle class is concerned.
To put a finishing note on your question; had those events never taken place, Miami would still be in the same position it is in today. The only difference is that the change would had been more drawn out. Federal Law has made Miami whatever it has become today.
See: Unchanging/never ending/failed Cuba policy, disenfranchisement of the black community stemming from failed federal policies, dissolution/corruption of conventional democratic institutions, and last, but not least, failure of the government to enforce legal immigration standards.
I was 12 in Miami when the McDuffie riots took place and I really don't have any memory of them. I had to do a Google search to find out what they were about. So, I don't think they had that big of an impact. Did we see a lot of white flight from LA after the Rodny King riots? (Wouldn't it suck to have a riot named after you?)
The Cuban invasion of 1980, on the otherhand, was a much bigger impact. Those were the lowest of the low. They were the inmates and residents of Castro's insane asylems. He unloaded his problems on us. I think if all of the Cuban disadents would have stayed and fought Castro then both Miami AND Cuba would be much better places today.
This thread topic came to me while reading some of the posts in the recent "I Love Miami" thread that state the pretty standard complaints about South Florida, especially those of the "like living in a foreign country" variety.
The two events mentioned in the thread title are often cited as the two most tangible reasons why the Anglo middle-class evacuated Miami-Dade County throughout the 80s. I'd be intrigued to hear, especially from those who I believe to be native Miamians from what I've read on here, what they feel Dade County specifically would be like if history had been different.
I'm trying to conceptualize a Miami in 2008 that would be demographically close to what it was in the 1970s, which is admittedly very hard to picture, but I imagine that's somewhat what it would be like.
If the main Hispanic population in Dade County would have remained "Pedro Pan"-era Cubans and their Miami-born offspring, with no Mariel or the subsequent mid-90s "raft wave", would the word have spread around Central and South America that Miami was the place to immigrate to because of the predominance of the Spanish culture here?
If the majority of the Anglos had never left between 1980 and 1985 because the two aforementioned events never happened, would there have been as much room for so much immigration anyhow?
Would we see a much higher quality of service, etc., and would Miami be considered much more of an "American town"? Was it considered as such during the 1970s, when primarily the Cubans who arrived in the mid-to-late 60s and were very open to assimilation made up the Hispanic population in the county?
For the record, I am 36, born and raised here and still residing in Miami. Both of my parents were Cubans who came here in the late 60s. I remember the Miami of my childhood (the 70s) being considerably different from any other time after that, especially the post-1999 era.
I would be very interested in any and all opinions on this matter and am really hoping to see some of the forum regulars chime in on this one.
Originally, I was going to be sarcastic, that is, until I read your post.
Unlike the previous poster, that time period does not predate my stay in Miami.
Actually, to answer your question, I've got to broaden the topic. Simplest thing first, McDuffie riots were followed some 14 years later by German tourist whose heads were crushed by cars when they made a serious bad turn and ended up in Liberty city.
Tons of Germans were coming to Miami Beach drawn by "Miami Vice" which was airing in Germany. This is a true if little known factor: many came to Miami to seek decadence!
I would rate this violence followed by Newsweek and Time articles as important as McDuffie riots.
But there were many, many events, the "Miami River cops" made the news, real Miami Vice stuff, crooked cops with drug deals and murders. Operation "court broom" which netted a bunch of crooked judges....
It was a downhill spiral of many events.
Now Mariel WAS different. The scale of the thing was an order of magnitude higher. Miami never did recover from that blow.
Now to your question, if those two events had not happened...?
I kinda think with all the other stuff that did happen and with the influx of Nicaraguans, Salvadorans, Columbians... each of these groups had their own stories and negative impacts on Miami. It's like a History of failed U.S. foreign policy in South America. Remember Iran-contra? Where do you think the Nicaraguans ended up? The CIA backed militia regime in El Salvador with death squads, where did those refugees end up? Failed drug policy in Columbia, you get the picture.
So, it would have deteriorated anyways, and the exodus would have occurred, that's my conclusion.
Since I posted other posters commented on dissidents. I agree the dissidents might have made a difference if they had stayed in Cuba and we would all be the better; however, to group genuine dissidents with the scum of Mariel is unfair and misleading. I mean if I went to Fulsom prison and emptied it and sent it to ANY major U.S. city, I'd see a "crime wave" also. For those non-Cubans reading this thread, pre-Mariel Cubans never forgave Jimmy Carter.
off topic here, but as someone that recently moved here and doesnt see this city nearly as bad as some of you. How can Miami be worse now than it was in the 80's? That was like a black eye in Miami history how can it be worse now as much of you say? Riots, influx of criminals and immigreants in masses, corruption at an all time high, crime at an all time high(murder capital of the nation), drug trade was basically running this town, and people were leaving quicker than ever. The 90's the area calmed but still tourist killings made world headlines, the city was still as corrupt as the 80's and the city of Miami went bankrupt or almost did also making headlines.
Alot of you think the influx of immigrants brought down this city but I see them as forming this city into the multi-cultural experience it is today. Other tan that its hard to see how things have gotten worse.
Today crime is no where even close to the level it reached, its not totally good, Miami still has hot spots but again crime is not the issue it was 20 years ago. After two riots in the 80's which by the way was the norm back then across the country no one has seen anything like it. While I wasnt here to experience what El Mariel did to Miami, but it did get heavy coverage on the media and can just imagine getting thousands of immigrants one day after the other. Today immigrants come here at normal numbers also much lower than in the 80's and 90's and are beggining to arrive anywhere in america, Orlando 10 years ago had small hispanics population and even lower number of immigrants, today the area is close to 20% hispanic and large immigration number from latin america and probaly higher illegal population than Miami, today immigrants are not just going to NY, LA, Miami, they are going everywhere. Not that immigration is a bad thing, but heavy immigration like in the 80's does cause disruption in economy and alot of misplaced people, but it should be known Miami has probaly the most succesful immigrant community. Today the largest immigrant numbers come from rich south americans. After being bankrupt a couple of years ago, today the city is succesful and while alot dont agree with how the people are spending the money and the city is being managed, the city has been saved from hell hole finacially, Miami has been a model to alot of struggling and succesful cities like it or not, and Manny Diaz is an ambitious man that has done alot of good to this city, corruption still exists but this is America too and corruption is still americana, sadly it goes hand in hand with american politics. After another black eye with the tourist killings Miami is more popular with Europeans than ever, actually tourist number reacched a new record in 2007, while domestic tourist are still the majority, foreign tourist also reached an all time high, especially with german tourist even german and european immigrants now and days. And the City of Miami grew 11% from 2000 to 2006 after two decades of growing anywhere from 1 to 3 % for two decades, last time Miami grew that fast was in the 70's and I highly doubt the big increase was of immigrants, last I heard there was no new influx of immigrants.
Persoanlly this city is in a stage of its history that is exciting and am glad to be here, alot of you have problems with stuff that then are blown up here on this small internet forum. So much things are blown out of porportion and exagerated from rudeness to crime to the spanish issue. Yes Miami is not the ideal city for alot of people but its something alot of people would love and while most posts are level headed with their post and pretty fair alot are ridiculous and just not necessary.
Last edited by TannerMan; 03-31-2008 at 10:50 AM..
I was 12 in Miami when the McDuffie riots took place and I really don't have any memory of them. I had to do a Google search to find out what they were about. So, I don't think they had that big of an impact. Did we see a lot of white flight from LA after the Rodny King riots? (Wouldn't it suck to have a riot named after you?)
I do not remember the McDuffie riots since I was only about one year old at that time, but I do know that my grandfather was a victim of them. He was on his way home from work and was attacked in his car because he was white.
My mother's family lived in Opa-Locka since the late 1940's, and I do believe that these riots did play a part in white flight from that particular part of Miami during this time. My grandparents ended up staying in their home in Opa-Locka until the end, and it became obviously a vastly different place than it was when my mother was growing up.
Here is a decent article about the riots and the way they changed the communities: Miami Liberty City 25
Thank you to all who have posted so far. Building on Miami Blue's link to the McDuffie article, I found another one that I think emphasizes the impact of the situation even more:
It would probably be the same as it is today. Nothing like this has occurred in West Palm Beach yet most of the Caucasian has moved out of this city through the years, as in other cities such as Lake Worth as well. It has to do with foreign cultures dominating an area, increasing crime rates, etc.
It would probably be the same as it is today. Nothing like this has occurred in West Palm Beach yet most of the Caucasian has moved out of this city through the years, as in other cities such as Lake Worth as well. It has to do with foreign cultures dominating an area, increasing crime rates, etc.
The term "foreign culture" often represents, in the case of Miami-Dade County, often total ousting of traditional civic and governmental institutions. The biggest problem with developing countries striving to achieve true democracy is their failure to build strong institutions. In the case of Miami-Dade, I believe there were strong institutions before el Mariel and the McDuffie riots. By 'institutions' I mean police, the courts, city and county government, school boards, and local regulatory authorities.
The low quality of people who replaced the leaders of these institutions after white and middle-class flight was the main catalyst for everything that people say is wrong with Miami today. This lack of quality leadership accelerated the demise of the black community in Miami-Dade, while at the same time gave the white middle class a better reason never to come back and never to reinvest.
Most of the immigrants who came to Miami after this time of great change were already living with the absence of any institution in Latin America, so they adapted to the situation better than any other ethnic group. Also, like the Irish in Boston or any other historical ethnic group in the country, patronage and political machines in Miami were developed to cater to the new majority. That is why nowadays there are people in Miami who can live a middle to upper class life without having to know a word of English. It is also why now the Demographics read as such ...White-18%/Black-20%/Hisp.-60%
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Interesting question
