Is it really that bad? (Miami, Doral: condo, neighborhoods, contractors)

[doggiebus]

Originally Posted by PBCboy

Go two cities up to central Palm Beach County and you'll be areas that are far more "third-world" than Kendall, Pembroke Pines, etc. (which to me are just American cities that people consider "third-world" because they have large Hispanic populations).

Its only moving north, soon all of Broward and Palm beach County will be like Miami-Dade just give it time (10 years or so). I think I read that this year or last Broward became a minority majority.

[rogerbacon]

Originally Posted by doggiebus

Oh that is me, when we visit family in Boca, we say we are going to America.

Fifteen years ago when we said that we meant going to Broward county. Looks like the line has moved farther North since then.

[big mean bear]

Originally Posted by mathwhiz

I mean it's not like LA, SF, DC, NY, etc.

Many people from those cities consider Miami cheap.

Miami would be more 'expensive' (wages, rent, home values, etc.) if the place didn't scare
away so many Americans. If it were an American-friendly city, Miami might even blossom into the nation's
"3rd" or "4th" city. Chicago was traditionally considered to be the nation's "2nd city" after New York, not in metro population but rather in stature and financial/economic importance. Miami could grab a spot in the top 5 on the basis of it being a gateway for so much international business.

Many Americans who travel to Miami are repulsed by its 3rd world feel and lack of English speakers at all economic and social stratums. For example, you wouldn't care if a gas station cashier or fast food server didn't speak English, as almost none do here, and its almost expected anywhere in the country. But there are a ton of people with mid-level jobs who speak little or no English in Miami. Many uninformed or resentful Americans understandably assume that Miami is a microcosm of everything bad happening to the country. To them, Miami is the official epicenter of the disintigration of American culture and the official capital of bilingualism, crime, and corruption.

For those who will undoubtedly come swooping down to say that Europe is better for Miami than the rest of the nation because of the weak dollar, I don't think that is a true argument. There is simply no way to prove that Europeans have helped the Miami economy in any way.
Moderator cut: copyright image

[runswithscissors]

"Many uninformed or resentful Americans understandably assume that Miami is a microcosm of everything bad happening to the country. To them, Miami is the official epicenter of the disintigration of American culture and the official capital of bilingualism, crime, and corruption."

There are plenty of Americans that cite the Race Patriotic Agenda, in addition to the above. An OVERT aggressive agenda not a passive agenda of being too passive to bother with English.

[compelled to reply]

Originally Posted by doggiebus

I think I read that this year or last Broward became a minority majority.

The increase in black population outpaced the increase in Hispanic population. It is still 49.9% white (yes that number).

Really though, do we need another "Latins are extremely rude, non diverse criminals and are responsible for taking my job, the destruction of America and all of the problems in my life and zero of them speak any English and now they ruined Broward with crime and filth and Palm Beach is next, we will all be in shantytowns because of the Latins, rude people, crime" thread? The OP didn't ask about Latins .

[planetsurf]

Originally Posted by big mean bear

If it were an American-friendly city, Miami might even blossom into the nation's "3rd" or "4th" city. Chicago was traditionally considered to be the nation's "2nd city" after New York, not in metro population but rather in stature and financial/economic importance. Miami could grab a spot in the top 5 on the basis of it being a gateway for so much international business.

I disagree -- Miami's stature will grow further BECAUSE it offers something else, something new that another city (like an Atlanta) just can't. (That is of course it's view looking South to LatAm and the gateway status it already has.)
Look at a Portland or Seattle, except for being the base of Microsoft, these cities really shouldn't be able to influence the rest of the country and YET they have influence BECAUSE they offer a fresh new perspective on American life.
Miami is the same way (but for very different reasons).

We had dinner at Vinisimo the other night (AMAZING tapas btw) and there were a few families there. All appearing solidly middle-class, educated, respectful. THESE are the kinds of kids that I believe will be the leaders of not just Miami and SoFla but our entire country. Kids that get other POVs, understand another language and eat "weird" food (a joke). And of course they ARE Americans just as much as some redneck in Georgia. WE are all Americans in Miami -- well most of us anyway. Look at Obama, without his "worldly" background I don't believe he's the same person. Irregardless if you respect his politics or not, you HAVE to respect his amazing achievements in life.

We have LOTS of problems in SoFla, there is a lot of shifting and rearranging going on and there is a lot of work to be done before it can be considered a "top 5" city by most everyone else in the US. But I don't think it's too far off and it is EXACTLY the kind of place that I believe will give my kids the kind of world view to be successful in life. It certainly has for my wife and I.

[big mean bear]

We all need to agree that the American way of doing things is decidedly better than the way they do things in Latin/South America. If you are someone who does not believe this, than you must thrive in the margins of most American discontent. We just need more people like you (planetsurf) to show these people how things are done. (The right way)

BTW Miami is "bottom 5" in all the categories that any major city can be judged, so I don't understand why you think that all the bad things I just stated are all the sudden positive characteristics, or that they are somehow gonig to make Miami better in the coming years.

[compelled to reply]

Originally Posted by big mean bear

We all need to agree that the American way of doing things is decidedly better than the way they do things in Latin/South America. If you are someone who does not believe this, than you must thrive in the margins of most Americans' discontent. We just need more people like you (planetsurf) to show these people how things are done. (The right way)

Wasn't the "American way" largely defined by immigrants in the 1910s/20s in the first place? I'm not questioning that we do things a bit better here in many ways than they do down there, but just saying America has been through a so called "third world invasion" before and we came out just fine, heck, we got hots dogs and pizza out of it too. The "American" culture is based off of something new added from somewhere else to it seemingly every day. Remember, the USA as we know it is not even 300 years old. By world standards, it's a teenager of a country.

However, the depression did come after a wave of immigration. While a lot of the immigrants seemed to absorb most of the blame from the "natives" for America's ills in the 1930s, there is still no proof that immigration actually had anything to do with what happened.

Of course, we have a huge wave of illegal immigration now, and that is impacting both the taxpayer and the economy, but that is a whole different topic...and surprisingly Miami hasn't particularly been a hotspot for immigrants without their papers.

[noland123]

Originally Posted by big mean bear

Miami would be more 'expensive' (wages, rent, home values, etc.) if the place didn't scare
away so many Americans. If it were an American-friendly city, Miami might even blossom into the nation's
"3rd" or "4th" city. Chicago was traditionally considered to be the nation's "2nd city" after New York, not in metro population but rather in stature and financial/economic importance. Miami could grab a spot in the top 5 on the basis of it being a gateway for so much international business.

Many Americans who travel to Miami are repulsed by its 3rd world feel and lack of English speakers at all economic and social stratums. For example, you wouldn't care if a gas station cashier or fast food server didn't speak English, as almost none do here, and its almost expected anywhere in the country. But there are a ton of people with mid-level jobs who speak little or no English in Miami. Many uninformed or resentful Americans understandably assume that Miami is a microcosm of everything bad happening to the country. To them, Miami is the official epicenter of the disintigration of American culture and the official capital of bilingualism, crime, and corruption.

For those who will undoubtedly come swooping down to say that Europe is better for Miami than the rest of the nation because of the weak dollar, I don't think that is a true argument. There is simply no way to prove that Europeans have helped the Miami economy in any way.

Miami doesn't scare me in the least and it does not have the feeling of a 3rd world country whatsoever and I am a caucasian male who doesn't speak Spanish.

[planetsurf]

Originally Posted by big mean bear

We all need to agree that the American way of doing things is decidedly better than the way they do things in Latin/South America.

Everything? Is EVERYTHING in America really "better" than EVERYWHERE else?
I think there are lessons to be learned from most cultures. I won't trade the political system in any LatAm country for ours, maybe their coffee though

Originally Posted by big mean bear

We just need more people like you (planetsurf) to show these people how things are done. (The right way)

I'm not sure who "these people" are. I have learned how to work really hard and accept new and divergent POVs because of friends and bosses from LatAm.

Originally Posted by big mean bear

BTW Miami is "bottom 5" in all the categories that any major city can be judged, so I don't understand why you think that all the bad things I just stated are all the sudden positive characteristics, or that they are somehow gonig to make Miami better in the coming years.

Again, I'm not sure what quantifiable categories will make MY perfect city, but I think Miami is better RIGHT NOW than it used to be specifically b/c of it's international focus. It is exactly why WE and most of our friends live here and why there are so many (certainly needs to be more) business opportunites here. My wife's career was built on her understanding and bridging between LatAm and American culture and has worked for companies most Ivy League MBAs would be envious to work for b/c of it. Whether or not some secretary in Hialeah speaks English is simply a non-issue to us -- her kids will UNDOUBTEDLY speak English fluently.

I'm not trying to suggest that the Hispanic influx hasn't brought some specific problems with it and everything is great here in Kumbaya. Just that Miami's strength is its unique place in between America and LatAm.