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You have to look at where your money ends up. Not at propaganda from the various companies or unions that twist statistics to show whatever they want.
A lot of the price of a car is design, insurance, marketing, distribution, management, financing, advertising, testing, etcetera. I would prefer that that portion of my purchase end up in my neighbor's bank account than in Soji Okawana's account in Tokoyo. I would prefer to see that money spent at Sharkey's, or Krogers, or Gi Hardware in town than at a Sushi emporium in a place that I will never visit.
The "money ends up" in one place, and one place only: the shareholder's pockets.
Did you know you can buy Toyota stocks in NY? Any profits made from buying a Toyota would end up in YOUR pocket.
Did you know that Toyota's cars for North America are designed in Kentucky?
Did you know all of Toyota's North American marketing, financing, and management is in Ann Arbor?
Did you know that Subaru's North American headquarters and R&D was in Ann Arbor?
Did you know Mitsubishi's is too?
Did you know that Nissan's headquarters is in Tennessee? Or that their R&D is in Farmington Hills?
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Not everything is made in China or Japan. My brother works in a Chrysler plant in Auburn Hills. Both Ford and Chrysler have engine plants Downriver. If you live in Michigan, you are not gong to help Michigan by buying foreign brands.
As you can see, that is just downright false. Almost every "foreign" car company employes hundreds or thousands of Michigan residents in very high paying white collar jobs. And some blue collar jobs too, Honda and Mercedes have emissions labs in Ann Arbor.
Maybe in Detroit or Flint, but not elsewhere. It's about a 50/50 split in the Grand Rapids area between Ford/Chevy/Chrysler and Toyoya/VW/Nissan/Honda.
I think the push to buy an American car is a silly one on the part of Michiganders. The lines have become so blurry as to what constitutes an American made car and an import. In addition to what scorpio said, every American car has "foreign" components in it. Lighting from Japan and Mexico, interior components from Canadian, engine components from Germany, steel from China, and on and on. The Honda we own was made in Canada. The Nissan we own was built in Tennessee.
If you're really concerned about helping your neighbor keep his job, stop shopping at Walmart.
I've had a Honda or Toyota for about 10 yrs, most of that was while living in the Lansing, MI area. My uncle is a long time GM worker and he'd occasionally tease me, but that was about all I ever encountered.
You see such a high percentage of Big 3 in MI because:
1. so many workers or family members of workers = discount
2. stigma of "buying American" products is heavy within the state
GM started shipping jobs out of the country while their profits were still high during the 90's. It was all done for the almighty dollar, and their stuck their heads in the sand when the competition started producing a more reliable product. Meanwhile, the thousands of workers / worker familes continued promoting "American made" while fully knowing the product line was changing to foreign made. Everyone kept their heads in the sand, then acted surprised when the ship started going down.
As for quality of product ........ I have many, MANY family and friends that have Big 3 vehicles, and most spend a fortune in repairs before the vehicle hits 100K. I personally do not believe a product is a good quality product if it literally self destructs by 100K, forcing the owner to either spend a fortune to fix or replace it entirely. I hear Ford has up'ed their game and making a good product now --- but, how is the longevity of the latest models? We won't know for several years as they are all too new right now.
I personally do not believe a product is a good quality product if it literally self destructs by 100K, forcing the owner to either spend a fortune to fix or replace it entirely.
I don't either, that is why I drive Ford, Chevy and Dodge.
The Ford has 135,000 miles and I've changed oil, and plugs. The last Ford had 198,000 miles and I had changed the alternator on it at 170,000 miles (along with oil and regular tune-ups), The Chevy had 280,000 when I sold it to someone who needed the extra size (it was a 3/4 ton Suburban), I had tuned it up a couple of times, changed the oil regularly, and put a few sets of tires on it. Yeah they cost me a fortune to keep on the road to (and beyond) 100,000 miles .
The Dodge I have is just a baby with only 52,000 on the odometer. I had to change a turn signal bulb once for $2 and change, guess it is on the way to driving me to the poor house as well.
We won't even talk about the Toyota with the new tranny at 38,000, or the Nissan with a blown rear-end at 50,000, or the Honda with a bad motor at less than 80,000. Yep, real reliable.
I could not agree more about avoiding Wal-Mart. I try to support mom-and-pop stores whenever possible- not only because it helps the local economy but also because the quality of products from specialized shops tend to be far superior. For example, why would I buy an Ipod at Wal-Mart when I can buy one from a local independent dealer... who is much more personable and repairs the battery for less money? Why dine out at Chili's when I can go to the family diner down the street and keep the profits local (not to mention get better food). I know these little things aren't much, but added up all together they do make a difference. I also just bought a sofa that was made and assembled in North Carolina... and realized the quality was a MILLION times better than any of the Made in China crap I've purchased. When it comes to furniture I know for sure I will only buy American from now on. It truly is the best in the world and I never really noticed just how much better the craftsmanship is until I started to pay attention. It completely justifies the extra expense. Just because something is cheaper doesn't mean it's better... all it means usually is it'll wear out faster. Buy a good American-made piece of furniture and you've got an investment for life.
The "money ends up" in one place, and one place only: the shareholder's pockets.
Did you know you can buy Toyota stocks in NY? Any profits made from buying a Toyota would end up in YOUR pocket.
Did you know that Toyota's cars for North America are designed in Kentucky?
Did you know all of Toyota's North American marketing, financing, and management is in Ann Arbor?
Did you know that Subaru's North American headquarters and R&D was in Ann Arbor?
Did you know Mitsubishi's is too?
Did you know that Nissan's headquarters is in Tennessee? Or that their R&D is in Farmington Hills?
As you can see, that is just downright false. Almost every "foreign" car company employed hundreds or thousands of Michigan residents in very high paying white collar jobs. And some blue collar jobs too, Honda and Mercedes have emissions labs in Ann Arbor.
I take it that you have never owned any stock and never known any people in management or administration of a major car company. Automotive stocks do not pay squat (preferred stock paid $0.59 per share in the past quarter. Common stock pays nothing). However many of the executives, engineers and administrative people who work for the companies are reasonably well paid.
That is great that all of their marketing and financing and R & D that they do on North America is in Ann Arbor. However it is only a token effort compared to the overhead services that come from Japan. They have to do their North American portion somewhere. However only a tiny portion of those services are done in North America. Most are done in Japan. So Ann Arbor gets 90% of the 8% of the Toyota overhead that is done in North America while Michigan gets 80% or more of the 90% or more of those services that GM performs in North America. I am not going to look up the exact numbers, but by way of example, if Toyota has 50 of the 600 engineers involved in Yarus R & D in Ann Arbor, it is not going to generate the benefit that Ford having 550 of the 600 engineers who developed the Mustang in Michigan. Each sale provides funds that are divided to pay for these engineers. With the sale of a Yarus, 8% of the engineering money goes to Ann Arbor and 92% goes to Japan. With the sale of the Mustang 91% of the engineering money goes to Michigan. (not to mention that the majority of each company's shareholders are located in their home countries). Thus on a $25,000 car sale for a "US made Toyota", Toyota has maybe $10,000 going to Japan, $5,000 going to miscellaneous countries like China or Korea and $10,000 staying in the US, while a Ford Car sale has $10,000 going to Dearborn, $5,000 going to miscellaneous countries like Mexico and Canada and $10,000 staying in the US (with a substantial portion staying in Michigan). You can move those figures around all you like, the result is still a significantly larger portion of overall sales dollars stays here.
Typically, a Ford car component made in Mexico ultimately brings more Money to Michigan than does a Honda car component made in Michigan when the resulting car is sold. Where parts are made is only a portion of the picture. The overhead and profit side of a Japanese car sale goes mostly to Japan regardless of where the parts were made or where the sale takes place. Likewise the bulk of the overhead and profit side of a Big three car sale goes to Michigan regardless of where the parts are made or the car is sold.
I've had a Honda or Toyota for about 10 yrs, most of that was while living in the Lansing, MI area. My uncle is a long time GM worker and he'd occasionally tease me, but that was about all I ever encountered.
You see such a high percentage of Big 3 in MI because:
1. so many workers or family members of workers = discount
2. stigma of "buying American" products is heavy within the state
GM started shipping jobs out of the country while their profits were still high during the 90's. It was all done for the almighty dollar, and their stuck their heads in the sand when the competition started producing a more reliable product. Meanwhile, the thousands of workers / worker familes continued promoting "American made" while fully knowing the product line was changing to foreign made. Everyone kept their heads in the sand, then acted surprised when the ship started going down.
As for quality of product ........ I have many, MANY family and friends that have Big 3 vehicles, and most spend a fortune in repairs before the vehicle hits 100K. I personally do not believe a product is a good quality product if it literally self destructs by 100K, forcing the owner to either spend a fortune to fix or replace it entirely. I hear Ford has up'ed their game and making a good product now --- but, how is the longevity of the latest models? We won't know for several years as they are all too new right now.
Individual examples are not particularly meaningful.
My ford Ranger 158,000 miles and going strong. Dad's last ford Ranger 210,000 and sold running. Brother prior Ford Ranger Odometer quit working at 260,000,000 miles because of something that he did to it by mistake, it died about a year later.
Wifes Chevy Express Van 164,000 miles (now has a head gasket leak and not worth fixing. Notably however The Subarus from the same time period at that van (late 1990s - early 2000s) that I wanted to buy for my Daughter are known for head gasket blowouts art around 80,000 miles. Every one we looked at either had a new head gasket, or a leaking head gasket. Newer ones corrected this problem). My old Subaru XT Turbo died at 90,000 miles. My Camaro has 110,000 miles and is still in good shape.
How you care for a car has a lot more to do with how long it will last than who made it. Further, some cars are better suited for people who take better car of them. Thus while a well cared for KIA might go for 220,000 miles, it may dies in 90,000 miles if neglected. However a Chevy Malibu might only last 138,000 miles f cared for but also last 138,000 miles if neglected. You might get a corolla made when a worker was having a bad day and did not feel like checking the part carefully, or you might get a ford form a day when all of the workers were instilled with pride and made unusually excellent cars that day.
However those are older models. The only way to test longevity of today's models is through stress testing of current models. Just because a 1992 Corolla lasted 22 years does not mean that a 2011 Corolla is the same quality. They test longevity by putting years of wear on the vehicle in a few months. They have machines that will open and close the doors thousands of times a day to see when the hinges break. The run cars 24/7 on the equivalent of a treadmill to put years worth of miles on them in a few months. They have rooms that matin temperatures of -40 degrees and run engines in them until they break. This way they can get a pretty good idea of the longevity of a modern car. This is much more meaningful than buying a 2011 Camry because you had a long lived example of one from 1988.
While there may be a quality advantage in certain years and certain models, the fabrication that all years and models of Japanese cars are better quality than all years and models of American cars is pure nonsense. Even when there is a quality difference, it is not a dramatic quality difference except in some specific examples. Thus although most 1992 Camrys will outlast a 1992 Malibu, not all Camrys will outlast all Malibus.
It is also funny that people who buy new cars every four years make a decisin based on reported "quality" and longevity. What do they care? No care is going to have major problems int eh first four years unless you get a lemon, and you can get a lemon form any company.
Last edited by Coldjensens; 08-29-2011 at 05:02 PM..
Typically, a Ford car component made in Mexico ultimately brings more Money to Michigan than does a Honda car component made in Michigan when the resulting car is sold..
Yes, I'll agree completely with you on that, but as a consumer I want to punish Ford (and the two others, both of which I believe will not be around in current form in ten years) for building cars in Mexico, where they cost a lot less to make, and not passing along the savings to the consumer. A Mexican-made Fusion costs about the same as an American-made Malibu, and not all that much less for me than an Accord, as I do not qualify for any employee/family pricing. As a union member, I want to punish Ford and her wicked step-sisters for closing factories that provided a good living for their employees. This is not to say that I wouldn't buy foreign, because if I were buying a new passenger car anytime soon, it would likely be foreign, unless I could get a something at a fire sale price (which, knowing Chrysler, is highly possible). I don't want to pay $1000 more than everyone else in town with the same car. The only domestic I'd actually buy willingly at this point is a full-size van, which would really come in handy for me. (The '13 Malibu is sharp; I'd consider one of those if I could shave off the tacky Chevy bowtie off the back. The Buick Verano is nice, too, but $24K for a small car? The Audi A3 isn't much more and they offer a hatchback.)
My parking lot at work has had quite a few foreign jobs in it nowadays. One guy went to Hondas because every Chrysler he had either got stolen or got damaged when someone tried to take it at work. We've had major problems off and on with Chrysler theft, including two in one day once.
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Originally Posted by Retroit
As the bumper sticker says:
"Out of a job yet? Keep buying foreign."
Many of the peeps sporting these are driving Mexican-made cars such as HHRs, Fusions, and the like, which are as American as tamales. Better yet is the UAW-themed plate frame, "I love my USA-made car," which has been spotted on more than one NAFTA-mobile.
Almost as funny is seeing these stickers on 20 year old cars, the purchase of which has done next to nothing for their manufacturer in that long of a time.
I've also seen on the window of a Crown Vic/Marquis, can't remember which: "You can drive your foreign car to the unemployment line." Little does he know that car was made in Ontario and was even classified by the EPA as foreign for a few years back in the 90s.
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