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You bring up a good point, that if a prestigious university had existed in Detroit, then more highly educated, relatively well-to-do people would have lived and stayed in the neighborhoods surrounding the university. Unfortunately, the University of Michigan was founded in Detroit, but moved in the 1840's to Ann Arbor when that town offered the University a ton of land to move there.
The University of Michigan was located smack dab in the middle of downtown Detroit. Very few large, prestigious universities are located in the downtowns of large cities (U of M usually ranks amongst the top 5 public universities with Virginia, North Carolina, UC-Berkeley, and UCLA). It's fascinating to think how U of M would have evolved if it had stayed in downtown Detroit, and what impact it would have had on the development and decline of the city.
Yeah, and not just those professors neighborhoods would have stayed nice. No one wants to live in a safe little island surrounded by ick so the adjacent areas would have been policed. That plus the fact that students and professors need someone where to eat, to shop, to drink etc. all businesses that would create revenue for the city. If UM remained in Detroit, and everything else in history stayed the same I think the city demographics would be more like 60% black, 30% white 10% other. And some of those formerly white working SW neighborhoods would probably still be there.
I think it is just Detroit specific, like Indentured Servant stated. No LARGE city in the US ever got above 80% black except Detroit. Even cities that were notorious for crime (like always being in the top 10 in violent crime) - Philadelphia, Washington DC, Baltimore, St. Louis, Cleveland, Atlanta, Miami, New Orleans, Oakland etc - never got more than 2/3's black.
Philly was never majority black and St Louis and Cleveland are barely 50%. DC and Atlanta and New Orleans are now becoming more white.
You are on to something here. St. Louis is 49% black, 43% white. Memphis I read today is over 60% black. Detroit is indeed the only major city I know of at 80% or higher black. I've not been to Detroit but I've read a lot about the area and it is fascinating to me that the metro area still has something close to 5 million people. That's huge! And very prosperous suburbs. But the city has pretty much emptied out - at least of whites, and of middle class blacks.
Smaller cities obviously are - East. St. Louis, Illinois now has 27,000 residents and is 98% black.
You are on to something here. St. Louis is 49% black, 43% white. Memphis I read today is over 60% black. Detroit is indeed the only major city I know of at 80% or higher black. I've not been to Detroit but I've read a lot about the area and it is fascinating to me that the metro area still has something close to 5 million people. That's huge! And very prosperous suburbs. But the city has pretty much emptied out - at least of whites, and of middle class blacks.
Smaller cities obviously are - East. St. Louis, Illinois now has 27,000 residents and is 98% black.
Metro Detroit is in the top 5 of whitest metro areas, so I've read. They just don't live in the city. Lots of people like to say some suburbs are "racist" because they're 90 something percent white..however in Metro Detroit there are 3 white people for every black person or something along those lines.
ESL is essentially an extension of the ghetto parts of Saint Louis, same as those towns in north county. Compare to Jersey City and Hoboken and West New York which are essentially extensions of New York..formalities like state lines are the only reason they are separate.
Metro Detroit is in the top 5 of whitest metro areas, so I've read. They just don't live in the city. Lots of people like to say some suburbs are "racist" because they're 90 something percent white..however in Metro Detroit there are 3 white people for every black person or something along those lines.
ESL is essentially an extension of the ghetto parts of Saint Louis, same as those towns in north county. Compare to Jersey City and Hoboken and West New York which are essentially extensions of New York..formalities like state lines are the only reason they are separate.
Yes and no on ESTL. ESTL had it's own history. It was named an "All American City" by some major magazine in the late 50's. It had close to 100k population at one point and then white flight hit and then black flight and now it has 27k pop and very hard core poverty/crime you name it.
The white flight in parts of North County is much more recent.
Yes and no on ESTL. ESTL had it's own history. It was named an "All American City" by some major magazine in the late 50's. It had close to 100k population at one point and then white flight hit and then black flight and now it has 27k pop and very hard core poverty/crime you name it.
The white flight in parts of North County is much more recent.
Not just talking about white flight but North City and North County essentially have the same history on a different time line.
Whites move in - mostly lower middle class
Poorer blacks move in
Racial strife and conflict
Whites move out
When looking at STL, it's like an escalator where the white people are just standing but the black people are walking behind them and inching up, once they meet there is a conflict and the whites run a couple of steps ahead real quick and it continues. Blacks are inching closer while whites are inching away, just a little slower so they meet up and have a riot every so often.
I think the reason for that is because all of those cities always had pockets of safety during the worst times. Even "safe" neighborhoods in Detroit like by WSU and Indian Village are not that safe. In Philly while West and North Philly were horrible, NE, South and Center City were still decent and stable. In the Lou, South City was still liveable, Oakland always had safe and upper class Rockridge.
Baltimore is wierd, it's bad areas are equal to Detroit, I think the fact that unlike Detroit which only has Wayne State, the fact that a really prestigious college like Johns Hopkins is there led to there always being a presence of highly educated rich people who demanded decent neighborhoods, it's no coincidence that the only white areas in B'more still intact are the ones that were close to JHU. Hampden had similar demographics to Pigtown, working class/blue collar "white ethnic" areas but pig town was on the south side surrounded by blight and nothing notable, while Hampden was close enough to JHU that if it went south then the campus would be affected so it was highly policed which kept whites from fleeing.
DC and ATL are getting more white because they are getting safer and white people aren't afraid they are gonna get shot there anymore like back 20 years ago.
What about USC in LA? I hear that it is in the hood. I think Atlanta and DC are getting safer because of gentrification and I think the gentrification started when the crime rates were high. In other words, I am saying that the gentrification (some of it as the result of the Olympics in Atlanta) came first, which reduced crime, and then the reduced crime attracted more whites and gentrification, which in turn reduced crime even more.
Metro Detroit is in the top 5 of whitest metro areas, so I've read. They just don't live in the city. Lots of people like to say some suburbs are "racist" because they're 90 something percent white..however in Metro Detroit there are 3 white people for every black person or something along those lines.
I'd like to see where you read this, because I believe your impression is misinformed. Metro Detroit certainly isn't a bastion for the African American middle class like Atlanta, but I have a very hard time believing it's one of the 5 whitest metro areas in the nation. Also your statement about it being 90% white outside of the city is GROSSLY misinformed.
Wayne County, home of Detroit is 50%-white. Almost 40%-black
Oakland County which is almost legendary as the most affluent county in Michigan is 74%-white 14%-Black Clearly more white but at 1.2 million people nowhere near 90% white
Even Macomb county, which is long considered the most blue collar white bread county 82%-white 10%-black with a sizeable middle eastern population.
These three counties make up the core of Metro Detroit's urban area at almost 4million people. It's far more diverse than you're giving it credit for even with two of the core counties being over 70% white.
Even when adding satelite counties you don't get that number.
Washtenaw (Ann Arbor) is 71%-white 14% Black
You have to go out to Exurban counties to get a resident white population over 90% like Livingston county, and as a stretch possibly Lapeer County which is closer to metro Flint than Detroit.
Please check your facts before making statements that could put an area in a less flattering light.
My numbers are from 2013 estimates and 2010 census from quickfacts.census.gov
I'd like to see where you read this, because I believe your impression is misinformed. Metro Detroit certainly isn't a bastion for the African American middle class like Atlanta, but I have a very hard time believing it's one of the 5 whitest metro areas in the nation. Also your statement about it being 90% white outside of the city is GROSSLY misinformed.
Wayne County, home of Detroit is 50%-white. Almost 40%-black
Oakland County which is almost legendary as the most affluent county in Michigan is 74%-white 14%-Black Clearly more white but at 1.2 million people nowhere near 90% white
Even Macomb county, which is long considered the most blue collar white bread county 82%-white 10%-black with a sizeable middle eastern population.
These three counties make up the core of Metro Detroit's urban area at almost 4million people. It's far more diverse than you're giving it credit for even with two of the core counties being over 70% white.
Even when adding satelite counties you don't get that number.
Washtenaw (Ann Arbor) is 71%-white 14% Black
You have to go out to Exurban counties to get a resident white population over 90% like Livingston county, and as a stretch possibly Lapeer County which is closer to metro Flint than Detroit.
Please check your facts before making statements that could put an area in a less flattering light.
My numbers are from 2013 estimates and 2010 census from quickfacts.census.gov
I wasn't talking about counties. I was talking about individual towns..like Clawson, or Berkeley. I gather much of the blacks in Oakland County live in Pontiac or right over 8 mile. Macombs blackness seems kind of recent and again is just Detroit overspill. Wayne County has Detroit in it. A 80 something percent black city with a couple hundred thousand people, kind of a given.
Overall Metro Detroit is much whiter than Metro NY or Metro LA.
I wasn't talking about counties. I was talking about individual towns..like Clawson, or Berkeley. I gather much of the blacks in Oakland County live in Pontiac or right over 8 mile. Macombs blackness seems kind of recent and again is just Detroit overspill. Wayne County has Detroit in it. A 80 something percent black city with a couple hundred thousand people, kind of a given.
Overall Metro Detroit is much whiter than Metro NY or Metro LA.
In your original statement you said metro Detroit was 90% white, you mentioned nothing about individual cities. EVERY metro area have some uber white suburbs, that's not something specific to Detroit.
Also Wayne County has 1.7 million people in it Detroit has under 700k, when you do the math outside of the city of Detroit there are roughly 130K AA residents in Wayne County outside of the city of Detroit, when added to other races Non Detroit Wayne County is around 70% white.
Metro Detroit is whiter than New York and LA, but then so are 3/4ths of every other metro out there. That's nothing out of the ordinary for most places.
Now if the point of your statements are to highlight that metro Detroit is "more segregated" than average, your point is taken. I cannot argue with that. If your point is that Metro Detroit is "more white" than average I disagree with you. I don't think statistics support that.
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