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The idea of building a stadium in Arden Hills is mind boggling. Where are the urban planners? Where are the....screw it, WHERE IS EVERYONE THAT GRADUATED 8th GRADE?! How can anyone other than Wilf himself think this concept of a stadium in the middle of nowhere has any merit?!
I am so tired of the whole city versus suburbs battle that rages on and in across this whole country. Don't these people get it? Don't these people see what they are doing to our economy and our environment and our quality of life? Don't they see that they are destroying this country? I'm done with this crap.
LOL @ anyone who seems to think that the prospect of navigating the choked off downtown streets and the lengthy walk back and forth to their parking garages on game day somehow qualifies a downtown location as more convenient than a large surface lot next to an Arden Hills location.
I would pay the tax. I think building the stadium would create a lot of jobs. I think we need to have an NFL team just for the prestige of it. It kind of solidifies as a real "city". Game day brings in a lot of money to other buisness owners like restaurants, bars, parking ramps, hotels, MOA shoppers etc. Plus I like going to a few games every year I think a bigger stadium would actually make more tax revenue for the state through these other ways of spending if that makes sense. Plus if you build a new stadium don't you get to host the Superbowl? I have no idea as I am not a sports nut but just a thought!
Also
If they build a bigger stadium there may be less of a demand for tickets and the seat prices may come down. That would be nice. I think the games are too expensive for many Minnesota families. If build in Arden Hills there would be more room for RV's and tailgating maybe camping sites or something built around there would be cool as well.
Every objective study that has been done on the economic benefit brought by professional sports, in comparison to public monies spent, has shown at best it is a breakeven return on investment. Usually, the city/county/state loses money - in other words once again subsidizing someone's pet projects. Money that is spent on professional sports would otherwise be spent on other forms of entertainment, so it's simply re-distributing money already on the table, not bringing in new money.
I hold social welfare with disdain, and I hold corporate welfare with disdain. Both ultimately are an affront to what would actually be a fair and just society where people are asked and expected to fund their own needs, not suck off others wealth in a compulsory manner (since I really cannot choose to not pay taxes, I am compelled to fund other peoples personal pet projects or support what is too often laziness).
I'm always a bit amazed the Legislature gives this any time of day. Setting aside our state just fighting out a $6 billion (or whatever amount) deficit that is caused because we have this insistence on funding every little project through the taxpayer instead of funding it privately, there is a disconnect on both political parties supposed platforms to what they actually practice. Republicans should be practicing what they preach when they say, "less taxes, less government, free markets". Democrats should be practicing what they preach when they talk about the inherent unfairness of regressive taxes going to corporate welfare. However, the lobbyists and campaign contributions quickly corrupt a legislator, says I.
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Originally Posted by golfgal
I think people also need to look beyond the 9 or so football games played at the stadium each year and the other activities that use the dome currently. There were hundreds of activities that had to be canceled or moved when the roof collapsed. I know our band practices there several times/year(for a VERY good rate and often for free) as well as attending the marching band state championships there each year. Dozens of high school and college teams play football/baseball/soccer there every year. Trade shows go on most weekends. Having a nice stadium will attract even MORE "convention" business. I know in the band world they would love to see a major regional contest here but they just can't at the dome-the acoustics are horrible--although with the new roof I hear that is better--we will see. Those regional band contests attract over 10,000 people PLUS all of the bands, so another 5000 or so. The kids stay in hotels, they eat in restaurants, they visit local attractions, etc.
I agree anyone needs to look beyond the 9 games a year for a facility. I bet Zygi would be dang sure it was being used more than 9 times a year if he footed the entire bill. That said, though admittedly the Dome isn't the most exciting venue for a football game compared to others I'm not entirely convinced the Dome is bringing in as much restaurant and hotel business that we'd like. From the conventions I've seen come in, it's a tiny percentage where the Dome was a draw. On the band competitions, I agree the Dome would be terrible acoustics. However, there's already a spectacular venue for those kind of events - TCF Bank Stadium. Indeed, Drum Corps International Drum Corps International :: Marching Music's Major League already is performing one of their major performances there. Someone wanting the venue just has to be willing to work with the "fourth branch of government" AKA the University of Minnesota.
Quote:
Originally Posted by golfgal
Arden Hills is hardly the middle of nowhere
As far as location irrespective of other concerns, Arden Hills wouldn't be the absolute worst option. It does have more open land for development (which is why Zygi wants it...he's a land developer first, I suspect). Downtown would be more centrally located for all in the cities, however. It's just a gamble a fan from Chanhassen isn't going to mind the additional 10-15 minute drive.
And, for my anti-tax rant, keep in mind I do actually love Target Field - just hate how it was paid for...the Pohlads should have paid for it on their own dime.
Every objective study that has been done on the economic benefit brought by professional sports, in comparison to public monies spent, has shown at best it is a breakeven return on investment. Usually, the city/county/state loses money - in other words once again subsidizing someone's pet projects. Money that is spent on professional sports would otherwise be spent on other forms of entertainment, so it's simply re-distributing money already on the table, not bringing in new money.
I hold social welfare with disdain, and I hold corporate welfare with disdain. Both ultimately are an affront to what would actually be a fair and just society where people are asked and expected to fund their own needs, not suck off others wealth in a compulsory manner (since I really cannot choose to not pay taxes, I am compelled to fund other peoples personal pet projects or support what is too often laziness).
I'm always a bit amazed the Legislature gives this any time of day. Setting aside our state just fighting out a $6 billion (or whatever amount) deficit that is caused because we have this insistence on funding every little project through the taxpayer instead of funding it privately, there is a disconnect on both political parties supposed platforms to what they actually practice. Republicans should be practicing what they preach when they say, "less taxes, less government, free markets". Democrats should be practicing what they preach when they talk about the inherent unfairness of regressive taxes going to corporate welfare. However, the lobbyists and campaign contributions quickly corrupt a legislator, says I.
I agree anyone needs to look beyond the 9 games a year for a facility. I bet Zygi would be dang sure it was being used more than 9 times a year if he footed the entire bill. That said, though admittedly the Dome isn't the most exciting venue for a football game compared to others I'm not entirely convinced the Dome is bringing in as much restaurant and hotel business that we'd like. From the conventions I've seen come in, it's a tiny percentage where the Dome was a draw. On the band competitions, I agree the Dome would be terrible acoustics. However, there's already a spectacular venue for those kind of events - TCF Bank Stadium. Indeed, Drum Corps International Drum Corps International :: Marching Music's Major League already is performing one of their major performances there. Someone wanting the venue just has to be willing to work with the "fourth branch of government" AKA the University of Minnesota.
As far as location irrespective of other concerns, Arden Hills wouldn't be the absolute worst option. It does have more open land for development (which is why Zygi wants it...he's a land developer first, I suspect). Downtown would be more centrally located for all in the cities, however. It's just a gamble a fan from Chanhassen isn't going to mind the additional 10-15 minute drive.
And, for my anti-tax rant, keep in mind I do actually love Target Field - just hate how it was paid for...the Pohlads should have paid for it on their own dime.
I was at DCI at the Gopher Stadium and it is a fantastic venue, beautiful stadium-however, last year we saw 3 bands before we were shuttled inside for thunderstorms, saw 2 more bands before we were shuttled into the bathrooms for tornado warnings. This past July, it was around 95 degrees that day, HORRIBLE humidity-I think the heat index was close to 120....Not pleasant. For the high school shows, it happens late October, could be 70, cold be 20--thus the reason for needing an enclosed space for these contests. When we go down for the Youth in Music contest in Oct, it's VERY difficult to find a place to eat around the dome, very limited restaurants there. I don't think that most activities that happen at the dome lend themselves to people staying and eating around the dome. The set up for the band festival does nicely, but it's VERY hard to find a place in the immediate area to eat. Every restaurant is PACKED though...for a few hours...one day out of the year.
The dome and TCF stadium are very affordable places to 'rent out' actually. The dome costs less for our band to use for practice then our "dome" in town .
If a fan from Chanhassen forks over $1000 for tickets for his family, an extra 15 minute drive isn't going to mean anything to them--and while the distance is longer, the actual drive probably isn't any different since you don't have to deal with stoplights on the freeways.
Location: East St. Paul 651 forever (or North St. Paul) .
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Quote:
Originally Posted by golfgal
Arden Hills is hardly the middle of nowhere
I wasn't sure what the poster was getting at with that post.
It's definitely not Minneapolis but it's not on the other side of the planet. Northern and Western suburbs will have more access and the Southwestern suburbs will have less, however.
Ultimately though the site is unsightly to begin with (don't we all agree?). It isn't doing much good.
I'm more interested about what the locals feel about it. I understand some aren't pleased by the idea at all.
From what I've seen at these games is that many folks at these games sure could use a walk.
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Originally Posted by Ghengis
LOL @ anyone who seems to think that the prospect of navigating the choked off downtown streets and the lengthy walk back and forth to their parking garages on game day somehow qualifies a downtown location as more convenient than a large surface lot next to an Arden Hills location.
The argument that keeping the Vikings in MN does not provide a benefit because the numbers indicate either a break-even or a loss on the tax revenue generated back from the return on investment of the stadium shows that there are many people in MN who do not appreciate having a local NFL team.
The benefit of having a local team to claim loyalty to, cheer for, and watch all 16 games in the comfort of your own home mean nothing to many people of this state. It wasn't until I moved out of MN and couldn't get every Vikings game on TV at home did I appreciate this aspect and I've paid quite a bit MORE money to do so than a half cent tax increase would ever amount to.
That being said, I also realized how little support the state of MN has in its sports franchises as other cities would burn the city down before they allowed their respective teams to leave.
The argument that keeping the Vikings in MN does not provide a benefit because the numbers indicate either a break-even or a loss on the tax revenue generated back from the return on investment of the stadium shows that there are many people in MN who do not appreciate having a local NFL team.
The benefit of having a local team to claim loyalty to, cheer for, and watch all 16 games in the comfort of your own home mean nothing to many people of this state. It wasn't until I moved out of MN and couldn't get every Vikings game on TV at home did I appreciate this aspect and I've paid quite a bit MORE money to do so than a half cent tax increase would ever amount to.
That being said, I also realized how little support the state of MN has in its sports franchises as other cities would burn the city down before they allowed their respective teams to leave.
watched some of the Lynx game last night and there must have been a half dozen or so instances of cutaways featuring landmarks around town... so we got that goin' for us, which is nice
Now....let me think about this. The town of Green Bay can afford a pro football team but the state of Minnesota can not?
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I think a bigger stadium would actually make more tax revenue for the state through these other ways of spending if that makes sense. Plus if you build a new stadium don't you get to host the Superbowl? I have no idea as I am not a sports nut but just a thought!
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