ACLU: Black people arrested more than whites in Minneapolis (Victoria: low crime, affordable houses)

[makes no sense at all]

Originally Posted by Squeamish

I've driven extensively around the bad parts of most major Midwestern cities. Minneapolis' majority AA neighborhood really does not look much worse than its majority white neighborhoods from a purely visual standpoint. ... but I'd say it provides evidence that the poorer AAs are doing better here than they are in most cities.

That's sort of the secret of the Minneapolis miracle... the houses actually IN Minneapolis aren't great, that is why they are affordable. I don't think it really means that poorer AAs are doing that much better than other cities. (a few recent articles suggest they are not) More like the baseline for what an acceptable house is for a person of any color is a few notches lower than it is in say, Denver or Atlanta.

[Cruz Azul Guy]

Originally Posted by iNviNciBL3

it just so happens that a good chunk of them live in high crime areas so this is probably why they are getting arrested more than whites.

of course it has nothing to do with their skin color but the environment they grew up in.

I need to call this statement out. Do you honestly think that someone is more likely to be arrested simply due to living in an area with high-crime? Or that growing up or living in these areas will increase the liklihood that someone will commit a crime? I'm sorry but this is just absurd.

[Glenfield]

Originally Posted by makes no sense at all

[b]That's sort of the secret of the Minneapolis miracle... the houses actually IN Minneapolis aren't great, that is why they are affordable. [b] I don't think it really means that poorer AAs are doing that much better than other cities. (a few recent articles suggest they are not) More like the baseline for what an acceptable house is for a person of any color is a few notches lower than it is in say, Denver or Atlanta.

Houses in Minneapolis sell for more per square foot than comparable houses in the suburbs. That's why you hear people say they can get more house for the money in the suburbs. The housing stock is very diverse in Minneapolis, and while some would be viewed as affordable, some of the most expensive houses in the area are in the city of Minneapolis.

And your last sentence is simply absurd. Where do you get these ideas?

[makes no sense at all]

You may disagree, but I don't think it's absurd. I was house shopping until about a month ago. There are tons of small, old homes in Minneapolis (and St. Paul) which keep the average home price down. A house in northeast, which is the trendy but still affordable neighborhood, is not any different than a house in north, which is the "bad" neighborhood.

[Thedosius]

North Minneapolis homes are on the cheap end of the spectrum even when compared to most suburbs.

https://www.minnpost.com/data/2014/0...n-cities-metro

[MidwestRedux]

Originally Posted by makes no sense at all

random thoughts:

i don't know if its a given that somalis will integrate. they have been coming here since 1991. Another refugee group arriving at the same time, the hmong are still not well integrated. Contrast to West Indians and Koreans in NYC, who seem to integrate almost immediately. That said, I'm not a kid in high school, maybe the younger somalis are already integrated.

the black population in the twin cities is small and extremely isolated for many years, as long as I have been alive.

for some reason people want to suggest there are a bunch of welfare moochers flooding in from Milwaukee and Chicago, but there are no numbers that back that up.

what's more likely is that minneapolis blacks who are making more money have moved to the suburbs, leaving behind lower income blacks who can't afford to move. at the last census, five suburbs gained more blacks than minneapolis proper did, brooklyn park and brooklyn center went majority black, and south minneapolis continued to lose all its blacks...

Somalis are still extremely poor, one of the poorest demographics in MN. Since they are lumped in with the rest of african americans, and the other african americans in Minneapolis are those who couldn't afford to move to the burbs, it is going to make for very disparate and distressing income statistics.

Several good points/observations here. Here are a couple responses:

"i don't know if its a given that somalis will integrate. they have been coming here since 1991"

I think it will take much longer than 20-25 years for the Somali community to fully integrate/assimilate/acculturate or whatever you want to call it. Unlike Koreans and Asian Indian immigrants, many of whom are highly educated and come from wealthy families, the Somalis arrived as refugees, mostly without formal education or even basic English language skills. Its probably going to be the original refugees grandchildren that really "make it" in society.

"the black population in the twin cities is small and extremely isolated for many years, as long as I have been alive."

Between 1970 and 2010, the black population grew from 4.4% to 18.6% of the city population of Minneapolis.

"for some reason people want to suggest there are a bunch of welfare moochers flooding in from Milwaukee and Chicago, but there are no numbers that back that up."


There is no question that this is happening or has happened in the past to some degree. Most of the data I've seen that tries to dispel the notion that people chase benefits to Minnesota cite statistics saying that at any given moment, between 70-80% of people receiving welfare in Minnesota have some previous/permantent connection to the state. It would stand to reason that those same numbers suggest that 20-30% DON'T have a connection to the state and probably are here for the benefits. If anyone has real data on this I would love to see it. The following link references what appears to be legitimate data on an otherwise questionable website:

The Audacious Epigone: Black TANF utilization by state

It shows that Minnesota has the second highest (after Wisconsin) percentage of black TANF (Temporary Assistance for Needy Families) recipients relative to the overall black population in the state. Again, this would suggest that there is some truth to the idea of people immigrating to Minnesota for benefits. Until Wisconsin reformed their welfare program in the mid 1990s, the state also had the reputation of being a welfare magnet.

"what's more likely is that minneapolis blacks who are making more money have moved to the suburbs, leaving behind lower income blacks who can't afford to move."

YES - excellent point. The original data I posted showing the median household and family incomes also shows that the median incomes for black people in Minneapolis has dropped substantially over the last decade, which would strongly support this theory.

Again, what is the solution? Just looking at raw demographic data, Minneapolis today has a lot in common with Milwaukee in the 1970s. I would hope that the next forty years in Minneapolis look nothing like the last forty years in Milwaukee.

When crime peaked in Minneapolis in the 1990s, there was an obvious connection to crime being imported from out of state. In 1997, "35 percent of the inmates in the Hennepin County Adult Correction Facility have lived in Minnesota for less than five years, and more than 70 percent were born outside the state."

Ethnic Change Tests Mettle Of Minneapolis Liberalism - NYTimes.com

Whether it was for Welfare or other means, Minneapolis imported a lot of trouble causers from other states. It is debatable whether race is incidental or central to the issue, but the majority of the people they are talking about in that article are black people from Chicago and other struggling US cities. The people who were in HCACF in 1997 are probably still here, as are their children. These are probably some of the people that are dragging down the median income numbers for black people.

Anyway you cut it, the black population as a whole in Minneapolis suffers from adverse selection. We don't have healthy black majority neighborhoods because we don't have enough middle and upper income black people that want to live in the city. Those people are moving to the suburbs, leaving behind the current black population where the median household income is the approximate equivalent of one person working full time for just over minimum wage.

This is a recipe for disaster for everyone involved. If it weren't for the metro area's strong economy, the nationwide drop in crime and the current trend of affluent people moving back to urban areas, Minneapolis would already be a shell of itself. This has prevented large parts of the city from become urban wastelands with empty lots and worthless homes. If any or all of those three supporting factors changes course anytime in the near future, we've seen what can and will happen on the south side of Chicago, north side of Milwaukee and just about every other midwestern city.

[Glenfield]

Originally Posted by Thedosius

North Minneapolis homes are on the cheap end of the spectrum even when compared to most suburbs.

https://www.minnpost.com/data/2014/0...n-cities-metro

Fair enough, but the comment I challenged did not specify North Minneapolis. It just said Minneapolis and that certainly does not apply to the entire city.

[makes no sense at all]

I'm not sure that TANF link is to believed. It leads to a racist blog and the link to the data source is broken.

I also don't think one can draw any meaningful insight about anything happening in the Twin Cities based on an NY times article from 1997.

Minneapolis never had any risk of becoming like the south side of Chicago. There was nothing like the south side of Chicago here.

[mtnbkr5]

Originally Posted by Mdcastle

Do black people commit more crimes than white people or act up in school more? If no, then there's a problem. If yes, then shut up with the racism allegations.

It's very very true. Covering up the problems is easier than facing facts. PC BS run amok yet again. Along with being a government institution

.

[makes no sense at all]

Originally Posted by Glenfield

Fair enough, but the comment I challenged did not specify North Minneapolis. It just said Minneapolis and that certainly does not apply to the entire city.

I actually did mean the entirety of the city, I was just using north as an example.

The reason why Minneapolis is affordable is because there are so many small, old houses. It's the same situation as in Pittsburgh, another of the three cities in those Atlantic articles. The other city mentioned in the article, SLC, has a lot of affordable houses that are much newer and larger. but I apologize, this is not related to the topic.