Rochester or St. Cloud? (Minneapolis, Duluth: ski resort, for sale, hotels)

[snowlandcook]

Originally Posted by golfgal

The Mankato shopping areas are easier to navigate then St. Cloud but they have a lot of traffic and are the regional hub as well.

Okay--I'll give that one to you--I haven't been to the Mankato mall in years.

But I won't budge on my position about the backed-up traffic in St Cloud. I think the problem is that the town was designed for fewer people and city planners aren't compensating for the growth. There are always alternate routes, but in SC they're all nasty! How 'bout this, golfgal--can we agree to disagree?

For the person who originally started this thread--SC does have old buildings. It's really a blend of new and old. If you don't like old, it will stick out and bother you. If you don't like new, it will stick out and bother you. I can't say there's more of one than the other, but I can say that with every new business that's built, a new traffic light is put on the corner! (Have I mentioned that I really hate the infrastructure in St Cloud? )

[snowlandcook]

Originally Posted by golfgal

Makato's mall is twice the size of Crossroads, sorry.

Ooops! This is the line I meant to quote in my last post! My bad.

[blakeb99]

im going check em both out next month...i sure hope its not snowing when i go. i've never driven in or seen snow in my life!

[ApolloBeachRetiree]

Originally Posted by blakeb99

Which city do you think is better? I've heard a lot of good things about both. Which one is more modern? And, are there any other medium sized cities in Minnesota comparable to these?

I lived in Rochester for two years. I did not like it and was glad to return to GA. You had better like snow, strong wind and very cold temperatures. Rochester in winter is bitter and desolate.

[toolman19]

A voice of different reasoning here. I lived in St. Cloud for a time, have been to Rochester many many times, and have lived for a long time in the Minneapolis area and I now live in the NYC area. St. Cloud is by far the worst metropolitan area outside of the Twin Cities in Minnesota. The populace is largely uneducated, racist, homophobic and in all intents and purposes holds world views that do not match reality (odd in a "college town," though the college is mostly known for its alcohol abuse rather than its educational prestige). That being said, Rochester on average has a far more educated populace and is more of recognized city because of the Mayo Clinic. Traffic in St. Cloud is bad not only because the city engineers have seemingly never seen a metro traffic grid outside of their own, but most especially because of the horrible drivers in the city. On weekends and on even on weekdays the city fills with outstate residents that are not used to any kind of traffic and their lack of driving ability shows (I have seen pickup trucks drive over curbs to avoid traffic at the parking lot exit on numerous occasions). In my experiences in Rochester, the traffic has been much better and more logically laid out. I am sure residents of St. Cloud will disagree, but I have lived in many cities in MN and outside of MN and in my opinion that is the worst city I have ever lived in. One could not pay me to live there again. Do yourself a favor and look into Rochester or the Twin Cities.

[thatoneguy]

Originally Posted by snowlandcook

I hate to disagree, but I will. When was the last time you were in St Cloud? I live here (and have lived here for the past 20+ years)--and between 2003 and 2005, I commuted to Mpls. (right downtown) on a daily basis. The traffic in St Cloud is far worse than the traffic in the cities. My extended family, who lives in the cities and visits here, agrees. Division Street isn't even the worst anymore. Our lovely city planners recreated Division Street three blocks south (County Road 75, which turns into Hwy 23, and which is also called Roosevelt Road and Second Street South--yes, that's 4 names for the same street, depending upon where you are on it--another common feature of St Cloud). Even on Sunday morning, the traffic was so backed up on that street between 33 Ave and Hwy 15 that it was grid-locked. (We couldn't turn right onto that road off of 33 Ave--traffic was backed up for miles.)

Plus, the traffic lights are different at every single corner. Sometimes all left-turn lanes go at the same time. (That's a good plan.) But most of the time, one direction (like, all those going north, whether they are going straight or turning) goes at one time while the people in the other three directions sit still. Sometimes, there's no-one even attempting to travel in the one direction that has the right-of-way, so the folks in the other three directions sit there, waiting for no-one!

Plus, as golfgal said, we are a hub for the smaller rural towns--and when those drivers try traveling through this "big city," watch out! They might turn left from the far right hand lane.

As for our mall (Crossroads)--the anchors are Macy's, Penney's, Sears, and Target. They recently added a Coldwater Creek, which is also quite large. The mall is hailed as the largest mall north of the Twin Cities. I can't complain about the shopping in St Cloud. It's retail central--lots of places to shop. Last time I was there, the mall in Mankato was much smaller--but I concede that that could have changed.

No offense, golfgal, but our views seem entirely different on this one. I'm curious what your experience is with St Cloud.

i have to disagree with you, actually. i currently live in st cloud and i go to the twin cities quite often. i've never seen or heard of any traffic like you've just described in st. cloud. ever. but i certainly have in the twin cities.

st. cloud traffic is actually not bad at all. our roads do need some work, yet you can get from point A to B fairly fast, especially when you consider it's not a big city at all. minneapolis-st. paul, on the other hand, is a different story. the metro is quite large, so even when there is no traffic, it will take you quite a while to get anywhere. and when there's traffic (which is pretty often), it'll take probably twice as long.

so never fear st. cloud traffic. the worst i've seen it was during the thanksgiving rush, and even then, it took me about a half hour to get across town (about 5 miles). yeah, it was a pain in the neck, but people from minneapolis, chicago, or other major cities would laugh at you if you called that a traffic jam.

[wildchild]

I've lived in both St. Cloud & Mankato. I'd take Mankato over St. Cloud for many of the reasons mentioned already. Traffic in Mankato isn't nearly as bad & your trips to the cities is about the same, especially if you're going to the main destinations in the cities (Mall of America, Airport, Vallyfair, Canterbury-all south of Mpls).

River Hills mall in Mankato has everything you'd ever need, nearly a million square feet, anchors JC Penny, Sears, Barnes & Noble, Target and Sheels superstore. The surrounding area has the rest, Olive Garden, Kohls, Pier 1, TJ Maxx, Gander Mt, Super Wal-Mart, Red Lobster & more then I could type.

St. Cloud is probably growing faster then Mankato & is slightly larger (Mankato-N. Mankato is about 50,000, not sure on SC). That's another downside, the traffic is going to go from bad to much worse in St. Cloud. Mankato's economy is much more diverse then St. Cloud, especially with the addition of the new Wal-Mart distribution hub being built right now. The new hub will add 500 jobs averaging $15 an hour, not to mention all the spin offs it will create.

As for Rochester, not sure, only visted 3 times in my life.

[snowlandcook]

[quote=thatoneguy;178194]i have to disagree with you, actually. i currently live in st cloud and i go to the twin cities quite often. i've never seen or heard of any traffic like you've just described in st. cloud. ever. but i certainly have in the twin cities. END QUOTE]

You must travel the rural roads. I swear, I'm not making this up. Just last night, I sat at the light on Hwy 23 (Roosevelt Road), waiting to turn left onto the road with Menards--and there was no traffic in any other direction. Why was the turn arrow red when there was no on-coming traffic or cross traffic??

BTW, I am from DETROIT MICHIGAN and my spouse is from MINNEAPOLIS. Those are major cities and the roads/traffic lights in those cities are planned accordingly. You expect bad traffic in big cities--not in small towns like St Cloud.

St Cloud is what, five miles from one end of town to the other? It should not take a person 20-25 minutes to get from one end to the other--nor should they have to go through 20-some traffic lights, half of which are red while no-one else is going through on the green side!

Let me say, however, that except for the bad traffic, non-synchronized traffic lights, and bad drivers, I like St Cloud.

[LOLZ]

I would definitely say Rochester. I haven't lived in either though, just visited. I lived in the Minneapolis suburbs most of my life.

[PortieOwner]

I went to college near St. Cloud 20 years ago and have been back only 2-3 times since (I also have family who live in or near St. Cloud, some of my ancestors were early settlers of the area). I was there in September and I was impressed with how the city had grown and how high-end the retail and restaurants were, better than a lot of the places available to me in Maryland. I also recall traffic being terrible on Division 20 years ago, but after living in the Washington DC suburbs for 20 years St. Cloud is a breeze. I had no traffic problems at all the weekend I was there, and don't recall any when I was there for a family reunion in Fall 2001.

The one similarity between St. Cloud and Washington DC is it is a metro area split by a big river, without that many bridges across it. There are plans to significantly increase roads and possibly even mass transit for the St. Cloud area. Check the Sterns County web site for information.

St. Cloud or Rochester? Hard to say. Rochester is slightly closer to the southern attractions of the Twin Cities, and always reminded me more of a Doctor and Engineer town, heavily Protestant, but that has probably changed. St. Cloud is closer to the North Woods, and lots of nice lakes, and is heavily Catholic.

Portie