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I have no idea what your problem is, but you are way off base. Around here I hear the Catholics complain more than anyone about abortion being legal, contraception and liberals waging war on religion. The Mississippi hills region, one of the most heavily German (and consequently Catholic/Lutheran) settled parts of the state voted Republican overwhelmingly in 2012. I'm positive it is due to the abortion/contraception issue that you only blame southerners for. They aren't any more tolerant either. The local rural SBC church has a black pastor while if I was black at either of the two local rural Lutheran churches I would probably be ran out of the place. My dad was raised Pentecostal and even he has a tendency to vote for moderate Democrats despite being pretty conservative overall. President Obama won 3 counties in Missouri + St. Louis city, all relatively urban areas.
So quit the BS acting like members of the SBC have no sense when it comes to voting while Mainline Protestants and Catholics are God's gift to democracy. I go to an evangelical Baptist church and I don't consider myself to be particularly socially conservative. I try my best to not judge people and that is probably the reason why I am not a hardliner when it comes to social issues.
And RDM has a point. There is more to every state than it's cities. I understand you are an urban dweller and probably always will be. That is fine, but you can make a point without trying to belittle the importance of the rural areas, especially in a state like Missouri, which is 2nd in the number of farms only behind Texas.
They are skewed for that exact reason. If you didn't go be denomination but by family (Meaning all Baptists grouped together, all Lutherans grouped together, etc...) my paticular county would be majority Pentecostal. But I think I have seen a map that shows religions divided up by Mainline Protestant, Evangelical Protestant, and Catholic.
And Perry County which has a lot of german ancestry and Lutheran's and Catholics votes VERY conservative and Republican. Cape Girardeau county also has a lot of Lutheran's in the northern parts and that county too is heavily Republican.
Yet Ste Gen county to the north has similar demographics and is more of a swing county. IMO that is due to the more unions in the area because of the riverfront and being close to stl. Jefferson county is similar also.
Also Perry county is futher away from Stl so I think stl's influence is less in Perry Co too than Ste Gen. I'm not even sure if all the stl area news stations cover Perry Co or if Perry Co gets their news from Cape Girardeau, Paducah area stations which are more conservative areas.
I would think that a real Southerner would definitely associate "SBC" with the real church of the South, which occurs in the afternoon, not the morning. Let's see if the northerners get this one...
Here is the latest map I just found. Southern Baptist is the main Baptist church in MO according to the map. WV for example is American Baptist Convention and a lot of Methodist too. I'm not Baptist so I have no clue on the difference between the Baptist churches. I notice an erosion of Baptist in texas. The southern half of TX is mostly Catholic now.
Here is the latest map I just found. Southern Baptist is the main Baptist church in MO according to the map. WV for example is American Baptist Convention and a lot of Methodist too. I'm not Baptist so I have no clue on the difference between the Baptist churches. I notice an erosion of Baptist in texas. The southern half of TX is mostly Catholic now.
The two counties in southern Missouri listed as "other" are christian county (pentecostal) and ozark county (church of christ)....both evangelical protestant denominations....more common in the south.
The two counties in southern Missouri listed as "other" are christian county (pentecostal) and ozark county (church of christ)....both evangelical protestant denominations....more common in the south.
Ah, was wondering what that means. I noticed south of Little Rock on the map is the same way as well.
Those maps do not show a majority of anything, anywhere. What they do show is pluralities. What I see, is a single MO county with SBC majority, a moderate group of counties with in excess of 25%, and a number of counties that probably average around 15% or so. But most of these are relatively unpopulated counties, whereas most of the Catholic plurality counties are relatively populous and culturally non-southern and more often than not with a conservatism more rooted in midwestern stinginess than old tyme relijun. Which is to say there are many Baptists as a proportion in the sparsely populated parts of the state, but by no means do they form anything like a majority of the state's population. Not even close. Again, if you take all the other religions that are not in the province of the south, the southern religions are still minority in most of the state. To the kiddo from 1988, what that means is that using math, "real" Missouri is dictated by where most of the population lives, not by land area. "Real" Missouri is the Midwest. The Midwest is my country.
"The SBC lies in the middle."
And I have a sphincter on my elbow. If you call them the middle, then, just wow.
Those maps do not show a majority of anything, anywhere. What they do show is pluralities. What I see, is a single MO county with SBC majority, a moderate group of counties with in excess of 25%, and a number of counties that probably average around 15% or so. But most of these are relatively unpopulated counties, whereas most of the Catholic plurality counties are relatively populous and culturally non-southern and more often than not with a conservatism more rooted in midwestern stinginess than old tyme relijun. Which is to say there are many Baptists as a proportion in the sparsely populated parts of the state, but by no means do they form anything like a majority of the state's population. Not even close. Again, if you take all the other religions that are not in the province of the south, the southern religions are still minority in most of the state. To the kiddo from 1988, what that means is that using math, "real" Missouri is dictated by where most of the population lives, not by land area. "Real" Missouri is the Midwest. The Midwest is my country.
"The SBC lies in the middle."
And I have a sphincter on my elbow. If you call them the middle, then, just wow.
What would you consider Texas then since the latest map shows Houston, Dallas, San Antonio to be Catholic and they're the three biggest cities in TX as well as the southern half of TX Catholics dominate as well.
And in Florida the most populated areas are all Catholic (southeast FL, Tampa area), and the Baptist areas are in areas that are more rural. Heck I lived in collier county for ten years and that county at the time I lived there had less Baptist churches than Jefferson county MO. Actually only had one Baptist church near me and was the only I even know of in most of the county, yet Catholic churches were every couple miles in Southwest Florida.
Those maps do not show a majority of anything, anywhere. What they do show is pluralities. What I see, is a single MO county with SBC majority, a moderate group of counties with in excess of 25%, and a number of counties that probably average around 15% or so. But most of these are relatively unpopulated counties, whereas most of the Catholic plurality counties are relatively populous and culturally non-southern and more often than not with a conservatism more rooted in midwestern stinginess than old tyme relijun. Which is to say there are many Baptists as a proportion in the sparsely populated parts of the state, but by no means do they form anything like a majority of the state's population. Not even close. Again, if you take all the other religions that are not in the province of the south, the southern religions are still minority in most of the state. To the kiddo from 1988, what that means is that using math, "real" Missouri is dictated by where most of the population lives, not by land area. "Real" Missouri is the Midwest. The Midwest is my country.
"The SBC lies in the middle."
And I have a sphincter on my elbow. If you call them the middle, then, just wow.
Please point out one Midwestern state that has close to the same percentage of southern baptists that Missouri has? North Carolina also has ONE county that has over 50% southern baptist population. Virginia has ONE West Virginia has NONE. Florida has NONE and Georgia and Alabama just have a couple. Your argument makes no sense, because very few counties even in the deep south have SBC majorities. Missouri has ONE county that has over 50% catholic as well. You really don't know what you are talking about, sir. Without Kansas City and St. Louis, there would be hardly any Catholics in Missouri. 90% of counties have baptists as the largest denomination!!! LOL. You really shouldn't try to use religion as your argument to make Missouri a midwestern state, because that is one of the most southern things about Missouri!
^ Hey! It's little Johnny Reb! Why don't you name one southern state that has as low a proportion of SBC as MO and as high a proportion of Catholics? Or that has a significant German population. Or Jews (Florida transplant retirees excluded). I mean seriously, the state is like 1/6 Baptist, and something like 1/8 SBC compared with southern states that are more like 25%+, which is a huge difference!! Good luck with that! Face it, STL and KC and their surrounding regions make up the bulk of MO's population, define the state culture that matters, and own the state's economy. You can tell me how big Springfield / Branson are becoming till you're blue in the face, but they're a drop in the bucket and podunk next to metro KC and STL. And hardly representative of more than a sliver of the state's population.
Re TX and FL, Texas and Florida represent the miracle of immigration - something Missouri could use a lot more of to help further wash out the few remaining southern influences. One or two election cycles, Texas is done voting GOP, and if Florida isn't already reliably over the hump, it will be soon. And at that point, the GOP will be a regional party, its backward looking toxicity largely confined to the south and the western plains, and this country can finally get on the road to relatively unmitigated progress again.
Last edited by STLviaMSP; 06-21-2013 at 01:00 AM..
^ Hey! It's little Johnny Reb! Why don't you name one southern state that has as low a proportion of SBC as MO and as high a proportion of Catholics? Or that has a significant German population. Or Jews (Florida transplant retirees excluded). I mean seriously, the state is like 1/6 Baptist, and something like 1/8 SBC compared with southern states that are more like 25%+, which is a huge difference!! Good luck with that! Face it, STL and KC and their surrounding regions make up the bulk of MO's population, define the state culture that matters, and own the state's economy. You can tell me how big Springfield / Branson are becoming till you're blue in the face, but they're a drop in the bucket and podunk next to metro KC and STL. And hardly representative of more than a sliver of the state's population.
Re TX and FL, Texas and Florida represent the miracle of immigration - something Missouri could use a lot more of to help further wash out the few remaining southern influences. One or two election cycles, Texas is done voting GOP, and if Florida isn't already reliably over the hump, it will be soon. And at that point, the GOP will be a regional party, its backward looking toxicity largely confined to the south and the western plains, and this country can finally get on the road to relatively unmitigated progress again.
Oklahoma, Texas, Virginia, West Virginia and Virginia have LARGE numbers of Germans. In any large Metro areas in Southern states there are also large numbers of Catholics. The largest denomination in the county Little Rock is in, for instance, is CATHOLIC. Several counties in Kentucky also have Catholic as their largest denomination. Why are you so ashamed of the southern heritage and culture of Missouri? You really need to get over it, sounds like its a personal problem. Those of us in Southern Missouri are generally more friendly. You can't just look at a map like that and dispute that numbers. Look at the map.....how many baptists are in Iowa? How many are in Kansas? Then look at MISSOURI!
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