In what ways is Southern Missouri southern, and in what ways is it not? (St. Louis: employment, transferring to)

[kshe95girl]

When I was a girl, the schools in the cotton regions of Mo had a school "cotton break" to bring in the cotton. I remember being jealous because we didnt have anything like that in Sainte Genevieve.

[STLCardsBlues1989]

We used to get out of school a few days for deer season.

[dltgarrison]

I grew up in the area where cotton was grown, but not to the extent as in the boot heel (but we got "cotton vacation" and had to work in the fields. I guess that is telling my age. Our particular accent here is called "southeast Missouri" and it's not southern, it is just unique! Missouri was called the Border State during the Civil War, and the southern and western part of the state was primarily Confederate. However, there were 6 brothers in my great grandfather's family - Three fought for the Union and three for the Confederacy. It was a state strategically torn apart by the Union Administration.

[stl4man]

So many wrong things have been said here it's ridiculous. First off, Missouri is not south of the Mason-Dixon line. The official Mason-Dixon line has never been extended west of the Maryland-Pennsylvania border. Also, to use it as the dividing line between slave states is ridiculous for the case of Missouri, because, unlike the rest of the slave states, most of Missouri was not economically dependent on slavery. Also, Missouri never seceded during the Civil War, and contributed twice as many known Union soldiers than those it was known to have contributed to the Confederacy. The reason Southern crops stopped being grown around the Missouri River was that they did poorly there...that's why you don't see them there today. That video of Franklin County...those people have Midwestern accents, there is nothing Southern about them. Poverty lines are also not an indicator of culture...maybe of the topography (like in the Ozarks), but there are plenty of Midwestern counties outside of Missouri with many living above the poverty line. Missouri also has an extremely high percentage of Catholics, and St. Louis is not nearly large enough to contribute the 19% that live in the state.

At one time, the Southern Baptist convention was headquartered in Indianapolis. The Ohio River has always been viewed as the Mason-Dixon line west of the WV-PA border....Southern culture doesn't run due north all the way to Iowa from where the Ohio hits the Mississippi. Southern Illinois and Southern Indiana are every bit as Southern as Southern Missouri is. I recently drove through Kentucky, Georgia, and Tennessee...the Ozarks have geographically similarities, and similar religion, but the accents and lifestyle of the people are far different. Cape Girardeau, Missouri, while it may be just to the north, is a far cry from Paducah, Kentucky. Most of Missouri is on the same latitude as Illinois and Kansas (Kansas also has a Bible Belt influence). Little Dixie is only Southern by historical definition...you would have no idea of that history looking at it today. Also, to compare Missouri to Iowa is not valid either, mainly because Iowa is part of the Upper Midwest, which has clear differences from the lower Midwest. However, St. Louis, Columbia, and Kansas City are definitely far more like cities in Iowa than Arkansas or Kentucky. In fact, these three cities have absolutely nothing in common with those two states.

Finally, to say the Missouri River is the dividing line is also a ridiculous statement except for geography, but the Northern Plains often cross the Missouri River (for example: Kansas City and St. Louis are not in the Ozarks), and the Ozark foothills extend and intermix with the Northern Plains as far north as Columbia in the middle of the state. Also, Kansas City and St. Louis, both of which are south of the Missouri River (or more or less right on it), have absolutely zero Southern characteristics. Other than geography south of St. Louis, there is no overwhelming Southern culture for about 100 miles until you reach roughly the point where the Ohio hits the Mississippi. In the case of Kansas City, my dad grew up in Joplin which is over 100 miles south of Kansas City, and that area is far from being definitively Southern. South of Joplin, southern culture really begins to dominate. Most of the Southern half of Missouri is a transition zone between the Midwest and the South. Once you hit Kansas City, Jefferson City, Columbia, and St. Louis, you are in the Midwest...no ifs, ands, or buts about it. The true South in Missouri begins below Cape Girardeau, Springfield, and Joplin. I agree that these areas are not at all like Iowa, but they have a lot in common with Southern Illinois and Southern Indiana in terms of culture, and have strong influences from St. Louis and Kansas City, which prevents them from being labeled as definitively Southern. Rush Limbaugh is from Cape Girardeau...he is often cited as a classic example of someone who speaks the Midwestern dialect.

[kshe95girl]

Originally Posted by stl4man

So many wrong things have been said here it's ridiculous. First off, Missouri is not south of the Mason-Dixon line. The official Mason-Dixon line has never been extended west of the Maryland-Pennsylvania border. Also, to use it as the dividing line between slave states is ridiculous for the case of Missouri, because, unlike the rest of the slave states, most of Missouri was not economically dependent on slavery. Also, Missouri never seceded during the Civil War, and contributed twice as many known Union soldiers than those it was known to have contributed to the Confederacy. The reason Southern crops stopped being grown around the Missouri River was that they did poorly there...that's why you don't see them there today. That video of Franklin County...those people have Midwestern accents, there is nothing Southern about them. Poverty lines are also not an indicator of culture...maybe of the topography (like in the Ozarks), but there are plenty of Midwestern counties outside of Missouri with many living above the poverty line. Missouri also has an extremely high percentage of Catholics, and St. Louis is not nearly large enough to contribute the 19% that live in the state.

At one time, the Southern Baptist convention was headquartered in Indianapolis. The Ohio River has always been viewed as the Mason-Dixon line west of the WV-PA border....Southern culture doesn't run due north all the way to Iowa from where the Ohio hits the Mississippi. Southern Illinois and Southern Indiana are every bit as Southern as Southern Missouri is. I recently drove through Kentucky, Georgia, and Tennessee...the Ozarks have geographically similarities, and similar religion, but the accents and lifestyle of the people are far different. Cape Girardeau, Missouri, while it may be just to the north, is a far cry from Paducah, Kentucky. Most of Missouri is on the same latitude as Illinois and Kansas (Kansas also has a Bible Belt influence). Little Dixie is only Southern by historical definition...you would have no idea of that history looking at it today. Also, to compare Missouri to Iowa is not valid either, mainly because Iowa is part of the Upper Midwest, which has clear differences from the lower Midwest. However, St. Louis, Columbia, and Kansas City are definitely far more like cities in Iowa than Arkansas or Kentucky. In fact, these three cities have absolutely nothing in common with those two states.

Finally, to say the Missouri River is the dividing line is also a ridiculous statement except for geography, but the Northern Plains often cross the Missouri River (for example: Kansas City and St. Louis are not in the Ozarks), and the Ozark foothills extend and intermix with the Northern Plains as far north as Columbia in the middle of the state. Also, Kansas City and St. Louis, both of which are south of the Missouri River (or more or less right on it), have absolutely zero Southern characteristics. Other than geography south of St. Louis, there is no overwhelming Southern culture for about 100 miles until you reach roughly the point where the Ohio hits the Mississippi. In the case of Kansas City, my dad grew up in Joplin which is over 100 miles south of Kansas City, and that area is far from being definitively Southern. South of Joplin, southern culture really begins to dominate. Most of the Southern half of Missouri is a transition zone between the Midwest and the South. Once you hit Kansas City, Jefferson City, Columbia, and St. Louis, you are in the Midwest...no ifs, ands, or buts about it. The true South in Missouri begins below Cape Girardeau, Springfield, and Joplin. I agree that these areas are not at all like Iowa, but they have a lot in common with Southern Illinois and Southern Indiana in terms of culture, and have strong influences from St. Louis and Kansas City, which prevents them from being labeled as definitively Southern. Rush Limbaugh is from Cape Girardeau...he is often cited as a classic example of someone who speaks the Midwestern dialect.

While I agree with 99.9% of what you have said, I feel that I have to point out the fact that the Bootheel region is overwhelmingly Southern, from the dialect, to the food, the whole "culture of the South" thing, just to name a few.
The invisible dividing line to the South happens just south of Cape, when one drops onto the Delta on I-55 from the Ozark foothills, and extends to the west until one hits west of Van Buren.
I have spent a great deal of time in the area, you should hear the accents of my relatives in Poplar Bluff, they are more Southern than where I live in Florida right now...... and I am not in a heavily "Yankeefied" area.

[stl4man]

Originally Posted by kshe95girl

While I agree with 99.9% of what you have said, I feel that I have to point out the fact that the Bootheel region is overwhelmingly Southern, from the dialect, to the food, the whole "culture of the South" thing, just to name a few.
The invisible dividing line to the South happens just south of Cape, when one drops onto the Delta on I-55 from the Ozark foothills, and extends to the west until one hits west of Van Buren.
I have spent a great deal of time in the area, you should hear the accents of my relatives in Poplar Bluff, they are more Southern than where I live in Florida right now...... and I am not in a heavily "Yankeefied" area.

Oh I agree completely. When I said most of Southern Missouri was the dividing line, I said that because I was purposefully leaving out the Bootheel. If I were to place an exact dividing line between the point where it goes from a transition zone to the actual south itself, I would have to say that Highway 60 is the approximate dividing line. (To be more generous, I would say south of the springfield and joplin metro areas as well. Yes, I'm aware a road is only an approximation, and that you don't get a magic change when you cross from one side of the road to the other, but somewhere around there the Midwestern element disappears completely.

[kshe95girl]

Originally Posted by stl4man

Oh I agree completely. When I said most of Southern Missouri was the dividing line, I said that because I was purposefully leaving out the Bootheel. If I were to place an exact dividing line between the point where it goes from a transition zone to the actual south itself, I would have to say that Highway 60 is the approximate dividing line. (To be more generous, I would say south of the springfield and joplin metro areas as well. Yes, I'm aware a road is only an approximation, and that you don't get a magic change when you cross from one side of the road to the other, but somewhere around there the Midwestern element disappears completely.

You are soooooooo correct!

[GhettoKC]

Ahhh I like this topic I made.

[Curmudgeon]

Originally Posted by kshe95girl

You are soooooooo correct!

Guess that makes us southern since we're well below Springfield and only nine miles from the Arkansas border, huh, y'all?

[kshe95girl]

Originally Posted by Curmudgeon

Guess that makes us southern since we're well below Springfield and only nine miles from the Arkansas border, huh, y'all?

You bet!
Guess I'm a hybrid, since I grew up in Ste Gen, but spent tons of time in Poplar Bluff.