Missouri...Southern or Midwestern? (St. Louis, Cape Girardeau: parks, BBQ, resident)

[GunnerTHB]

Originally Posted by onegoalstl

GunnerTHB, down in Southeast Missouri if one were to call someone a yankee would they be offended down there to be called one? I'm talking about natives, not a transplant from IL or NY.

I would be. I can't speak for everyone though. Those are fightin words for me.

[onegoalstl]

Originally Posted by GunnerTHB

I would be. I can't speak for everyone though. Those are fightin words for me.

LOL. I mean I'm from St. Louis, but lived in Florida for 9 years and where I live was full of yankees from the northeast.

MO was a slave state, one of the 13 Confederate states, ect and I don't consider myself a yankee!

I have not been around much past few days. Orientation at my new college. Most of the people at my university are from the Stl metro area as most are commuter students, but I met people from Texas, Dallas area, Houston, People from Tulsa OK, someone from Memphis, and I think one from Georgia. They all sounded typical American. No sign of a southern accent, maybe even little flatter than many parts of MO even. I couldn't tell they were from other southern states until they mentioned it. All acted the same. The only one who had a REALLY thick accent was a pair of parents I met from New Orleans. thick cajun accent which I quickly knew what state they were from.

[Flyover_Country]

Originally Posted by onegoalstl

MO was a slave state, one of the 13 Confederate states, ect and I don't consider myself a yankee!

Missouri was a slave state but was part of the Union, not the Confederacy. There was a constitutional convention held in Missouri in 1861-1863 to decide if the state was going to secede. That vote went 98-1 against seceding and Missouri remained part of the United States. The Confederacy did claim Missouri to be part of the CSA, even though Missouri voted nearly unanimously to remain part of the Union.

[onegoalstl]

Originally Posted by Flyover_Country

Missouri was a slave state but was part of the Union, not the Confederacy. There was a constitutional convention held in Missouri in 1861-1863 to decide if the state was going to secede. That vote went 98-1 against seceding and Missouri remained part of the United States. The Confederacy did claim Missouri to be part of the CSA, even though Missouri voted nearly unanimously to remain part of the Union.

Ever hear of the "Neosho Secession"?

These were the ELECTED lawmakers who passed a secession ordinance in October 1861. Many agree the constitutional covention had NO authority to evicted all the state offices so therefore they were still the state officials. Many though argue not that if they were the official or not, but that if enough members were present in both chambers. House journal shows enough were, but senate journal can't be found, however all the newspapers in the area reported it was done legally according to state guidelines.

KY was also admitted as well even though that WAS NOT a real secession. So you can call MO a Union state, but also Confederate as well.

Also Maryland Lincoln jailed all their lawmakers because he was worried the LAWMAKERS would vote on secession. Ours did the same thing so a convention likely wasn't needed. Even though MD didn't have enough lawmakers to pass a ordinance anyways. They were less pro confederate than MO.

If General Lyon didn't invade so fast after Camp Jackson, at the height of the outrage in MO over it, Secession very likely would have finally been passed either by the convention or the lawmakers passing their own. Claibs told Jefferson Davis they need no more than 30 days to get secession passed.

Also the Battle of Pea Ridge was a factor too. If Price would have won, and the Confederate were able to rescue Jefferson City from the invaders they could have reinstalled the elected government and possibly the history books would be calling us a undisputed Confederate state, and today the state would have retained more of its southerness.

[Flyover_Country]

Originally Posted by onegoalstl

Ever hear of the "Neosho Secession"?

These were the ELECTED lawmakers who passed a secession ordinance in October 1861. Many agree the constitutional covention had NO authority to evicted all the state offices so therefore they were still the state officials. Many though argue not that if they were the official or not, but that if enough members were present in both chambers. House journal shows enough were, but senate journal can't be found, however all the newspapers in the area reported it was done legally according to state guidelines.

KY was also admitted as well even though that WAS NOT a real secession. So you can call MO a Union state, but also Confederate as well.

Also Maryland Lincoln jailed all their lawmakers because he was worried the LAWMAKERS would vote on secession. Ours did the same thing so a convention likely wasn't needed. Even though MD didn't have enough lawmakers to pass a ordinance anyways. They were less pro confederate than MO.

If General Lyon didn't invade so fast after Camp Jackson, at the height of the outrage in MO over it, Secession very likely would have finally been passed either by the convention or the lawmakers passing their own. Claibs told Jefferson Davis they need no more than 30 days to get secession passed.

Also the Battle of Pea Ridge was a factor too. If Price would have won, and the Confederate were able to rescue Jefferson City from the invaders they could have reinstalled the elected government and possibly the history books would be calling us a undisputed Confederate state, and today the state would have retained more of its southerness.

The state did have a constitutional convention to decide whether or not to secede, but like I said above, the official, later, vote was 98-1 to stay in the Union. There remains a lot of unresolved controversy about the Neosho secession due to the lack of official records about the incident, namely the House record of the Neosho vote.

As to whether Missouri would have actually joined the Confederacy if Lyon didn't attack Jefferson city, who knows. Missouri obviously had both Confederate and Union backers and it would have been very bloody no matter which side they officially joined, since Missourians fought for both sides in the war. Missouri officially joining the Confederacy would not have affected the outcome of the war. The fact that Missouri stuck with the Union didn't get rid of the Southern-ness in the southeast part of the state, so I can't see why Missouri joining the Confederacy would have made the non-Southern parts more Southern.

[onegoalstl]

Originally Posted by Flyover_Country

The state did have a constitutional convention to decide whether or not to secede, but like I said above, the official, later, vote was 98-1 to stay in the Union. There remains a lot of unresolved controversy about the Neosho secession due to the lack of official records about the incident, namely the House record of the Neosho vote.

As to whether Missouri would have actually joined the Confederacy if Lyon didn't attack Jefferson city, who knows. Missouri obviously had both Confederate and Union backers and it would have been very bloody no matter which side they officially joined, since Missourians fought for both sides in the war. Missouri officially joining the Confederacy would not have affected the outcome of the war. The fact that Missouri stuck with the Union didn't get rid of the Southern-ness in the southeast part of the state, so I can't see why Missouri joining the Confederacy would have made the non-Southern parts more Southern.

Well then MO would have been likely like TN while being a Confederate state, had a lot of union support especially in the mountainous areas of Eastern TN and TN fell quickly into Union hands. Same thing with LA while being Confederate large sections fell to the union.

TN is probably the best example how MO would have been if they seceeded. I don't think they would have had control for long as MO was bordered by 5 union states. Well KY being union but Confederate also bordered them. Being surrounded by so many union states it would have been almost impossible to defend unless there was a super huge Confederate force.

[latetotheparty]

Originally Posted by onegoalstl

Well then MO would have been likely like TN while being a Confederate state, had a lot of union support especially in the mountainous areas of Eastern TN and TN fell quickly into Union hands. Same thing with LA while being Confederate large sections fell to the union.

TN is probably the best example how MO would have been if they seceeded. I don't think they would have had control for long as MO was bordered by 5 union states. Well KY being union but Confederate also bordered them. Being surrounded by so many union states it would have been almost impossible to defend unless there was a super huge Confederate force.

and lord knows.... huge sections of the tennessee population are STILL fighting this war over 150 years later......

[kshe95girl]

Anyone hear about the Klan showing up in Sainte Genevieve Sunday morning?
I was there, they sure werent from anywhere in MO.
Ste. Genevieve News

[latetotheparty]

Originally Posted by kshe95girl

Anyone hear about the Klan showing up in Sainte Genevieve Sunday morning?
I was there, they sure werent from anywhere in MO.
Ste. Genevieve News

oh man.... just what this country needs .... MORE ignorant hate and fear rhetoric..... and they call one of the Latino groups discussed in the flyer "neo-nazi" .... well, i guess they would know.....

any way the permit could be reviewed to determine where they WERE from??

[kshe95girl]

Originally Posted by latetotheparty

oh man.... just what this country needs .... MORE ignorant hate and fear rhetoric..... and they call one of the Latino groups discussed in the flyer "neo-nazi" .... well, i guess they would know.....

any way the permit could be reviewed to determine where they WERE from??

According to this article in the Ste Gen paper today, they didnt need a permit, the paper said the group was from St Francois County, I dont think so.
I spoke to a couple of them, they had really, really strong Southern accents, much more strong than even the SEMO southern accent.
Saying I was beyond appalled is an understatement.
Ste. Genevieve Herald (http://stegenherald.com/news/3%20news.html - broken link)