Californians have ruined Montana (Bozeman, Hamilton: loan, house prices, buyer)

[BDahl]

Originally Posted by MoMark

I am 16 years old and I am a Senior in high school this year. My parents and I live in a single wide "manufactured home." I am perfectly content with where I live and I have no desire to be better than everybody else, Life is not about being better than your neighbor, it is about helping your neighbor; in turn life becomes better for the both of you.

Well, if your writing is an example of the Montana school system, I'm very impressed. That may explain why many want to move to Montana as well and have their kids gain the same efficient writing skills as you exhibit. I know you're sixteen, and it may seem that you're being invaded, but it's hard for me to imagine you at the age of 7 being so aware of running cars left in parking lots or the correct number of car lengths to use when passing a car on a Montana roadway in the idyllic Montana you refer to nine years ago. And I know this isn't going to ring well with you, but $150,000 for a house is considered cheap in 90% of America. I'm a native Californian myself who moved to Missouri after selling out. I paid cash for my home on acreage in southwest Missouri. I am very thankful that prices here were so low in comparison to California and elsewhere and I took advantage of the high sales prices in CA and the low prices in MO, just like the other Californians (and probably ex-Seattlites) are doing in Montana. I openly marveled at how "cheap" everything was too...without regard to how that might sound to people here. The shock between the two realities is truly massive, but your point is well taken and we should be more considerate and conscientious of the disparity to avoid inadvertently offending the "natives". I am guilty of it. People here still wave to you when you drive past them. That isn't normal to me and I have to remind myself to do it to be polite and remember to look and wave too. However, don't be too quick to harshly condemn those ex-Californians. They're doing what you would do too if you were in their position with the same desires and wants for a better life for your family. It also takes time to acclimate to a friendlier and more relaxed environment and disgard one's defenses learned automatically in California. I promise you it's not intentional rudeness. I can tell you again, anyone in California thinking about moving to Montana who reads your post will probably be even more attracted to the state having seen the quality of your writing, which reflects on a good educational system. Don't be bitter this young, just do as well as you can in school and make your own impact when you're able.[/quote]
As far as the education system goes, It is as crappy as anywhere else. The teachers here are far underpaid, and alot of them don't like you if you don't like what they like. I just happen to be in the top 5 percentile of the average Montanan student.

[KatWrangler]

Funny thing is they say this same thing in Colorado about people from California.

[Marks]

Originally Posted by mystree66

I spotted this post just scanning down the states and was impelled to read it. I live in South Carolina and want to move to San Antonio and my husband and I are trying to sell our place and we are just normal working people who can probably not be able to afford more than 100,000 home and I think 150,000 is expensive as well. Everyday I see someone else from california saying they are moving there and it also makes us worried that these californians will drive the prices out of reach as well. So I too understand your frustration.

While I responded to the original poster sympathetically and even apologized I don't think "Californians" drive the prices up. What does everyone think people from California move some where and everyone says "Oh, look let's hike up the real estate prices!" Ask any real estate person (maybe there is someone on here that can respond) I doubt that is how it works.

Prices are actually controlled deeply by the FEDS. Right now in CA home prices are actually dropping, why? Because there is high interest rates right now, and homes aren't moving. Take a look at property taxes in any state. If they are high they're really high. If they're low give them time and the local governments will figure out a way to raise them. Just that simple.

Point is, we too are simple, middle class, working people. All we want to do is get out of a bad oppressive state. As I stated previously I've lived in California for 33 of my 43 years. I hated it then and hate it now.

Mystree66 you said, "I spotted this post just scanning down the states and was impelled to read it. I live in South Carolina and want to move to San Antonio…." You have the right to move where you wish, why is it that others are not allowing Californians the same right? Again, not all Californians are greedy, rude, nasty, etc. as portrayed.

[mystree]

You are right,i removed my post, I apolgize if I offened anyone,that wasn't exactly how it was intended to come across.

[RCL]

As someone who used to live in the SF Bay Area of California, let me also say that natives like myself share this sentiment of being overrun, only with us it's mostly by people who come from other countries, both parents working 3 jobs a day, then 4-5 families pooling their money together and buying a house cash outright with money they have brought in from outside the country as well as the money they all make. Now, please don't misunderstand me. There is nothing wrong with people immigrating to the US and there is nothing wrong with working hard, but when you are never home to take care of your kids, then they become gang members and it's not hard to understand what comes next. It used to be that people immigrated to this country with the intent to contribute and become part of a new society. Not so much so anymore. Many just come here for the almighty buck. There are also a fair amount of people who move to California from New York and even the midwest who have the same attitude, which is they's step over their dying mother to pick up a dollar. (Yet, they proudly extol the virtues of a Midwestern upbringing...)

This is off on a tangent but part of what fouled up the real estate market happened back in the mid 90s when there were so many multiple immigrant families pooling their resources together. Not being from this country, and not having been here long enough to grasp how things are usually done, they didn't understand the REAL value of the property they were buying. Developers developed agricultural land into large homes which they were previously selling for 250K for a new home. Then, all of a sudden a few of the developers started charging 450K and lo and behold here come all the immigrants who just think "well we have 450K" so they just go ahead and pay it. This was especially true of Indians/Pakistanis and people from Hong Kong who had coffers of money from selling everything off before the British gave Hong Kong back to China. Well, the rest of us who were California natives all knew that it was ridiculous to pay that for a house. But it helped start a huge frenzy and it's starting to cool off now. And then there was the dot.com disaster, when people with no education were getting out of high school and going to work for 100K a year at a dot.com startup, they got lots of bucks from their stock options, etc. and even back in 1998 paying 500K for a 2BR house in Silicon Valley was considered cheap at the time. Options were easy money and left people with little concept of the real value of a dollar.
Things in CA are not rosy now, though, and I wouldn't buy property in California right now if someone else gave me the money and told me to burn it. There are going to be a lot of people hurting pretty soon because they have bought high. People say it will never go down, they are unfortunately in for a big surprise because I've seen it go up and down now three times and each time it dipped down it was by close to 40% before it hit bottom. Yes, that's right, people lost almost half their equity in a few years.

Well, I only mention all this because I believe it's only a matter of time before the same phenomenon hits places like the midwest where people rush in and just buy everything up. I'm in Southern Utah now and it's happening here, multiple offers on property and it's hurting the locals who have lived here all their lives (I don't plan to buy property here).

Anyway, back on the topic here, I'm sorry to the original poster who feels overrun. I do understand exactly how you feel. But also keep in mind, there are a lot of nice Californians who are moving out of California because they want to get into a place with a value system. Personally, when I grew up in the Bay Area in the 60's and 70's, you could go to bed at night and not have to lock your door. Those days are long gone. We Californians have been overrun and there is nothing we can do but move. Sorry. ;-)

There are a lot of Californians like myself who have been displaced by a mass infiltration of outsiders...so all those of you who think Californians are ruining your state, just keep in mind, we got chased out of our state so we have nowhere else to go.

Going by economic patterns, I'd say that land and homes in the midwest will only be "inexpensive" (relatively speaking) for so long, maybe just a few more years, because it's only a matter of time before more baby boomers like myself will be relocating, not to mention there will be more foreign immigration and all this will drive up the prices. It's hard to swallow but what can anyone do about it? Like that old saying goes, "The land is gone and they aren't making anymore."

[Marks]

Originally Posted by mystree66

You are right,i removed my post, I apolgize if I offened anyone,that wasn't exactly how it was intended to come across.

No problem, you did not need to remove the post. No offense taken.

[Marks]

Originally Posted by RCL

There are a lot of Californians like myself who have been displaced by a mass infiltration of outsiders...so all those of you who think Californians are ruining your state, just keep in mind, we got chased out of our state so we have nowhere else to go...Like that old saying goes, "The land is gone and they aren't making anymore."

RCL, right on the money! Your so correct. Thanks!

[victoriana]

Hey Marks - and there are a lot of you Californians who came into Tillamook County, OR where we lived for six years in the early 1990's and helped build it into something wonderful. Some of my very best rural neighbors back then were "transplants" from your state. I have met some wonderful wonderful family people from your state! Just wanted to say that. P.S. My friends in Montana say that Montana has its share of stinkers, too.

[cc_me]

Howdy, I live in rural Northern California. It is quickly becoming a mess. Leapfrog development is eating away at the landscape and bringing in more than it's share of "transplants" to this area also. Traffic is crazy. People don't care about each other, just themselves. I have been a country girl for most of my life. So what is a country girl to do?? I dream of moving to Montana, a state in which my mother was born and raised. Where I have much family. And transplanted friends who feel like I do. We don't want to ruin your state. We want to become part of it. I am being pushed out. And when I make it up there I won't apologize for for bringing my money. I will, hopefully, change some folks views of most California transplants. Thanks for listening.

[NancyJo]

I think RCL brought up many good points, it has been interesting hearing this complaint about Californians! I am from Missouri, and I had to move with the job to CA - and cannot wait to return to a common sense state such as Montana, Wyoming - just started checking on SW Colorado.
I would add that California is also made up of transplants from
other states...such as myself! So, how long to you have to live in California to become 'one of THOSE people'? Stating a fact is merely, stating a fact - prices are different now because some people seem to want to move TO California from other states, and yet EVERYWHERE across the country, when the housing market goes down, it falls everywhere - although some places a little quicker than others.
When I visit my hometown, I am relieved to see buses with English writing on the sides - not Korean/etc....and worry that the changes I saw in Southern/to mid California regions in the last 15 years will spread to the states I want to live in. I saw Kalispell explode in growth just in the last 5 years of visiting; Jackson Wyoming is really doubling and capitolizing on the touristy way...these are not just Californians, here causing this...this is population explosion, and city planning! When I check on prices in Wyoming - Sheridan, for example, I have found in town Sheridan listings MUCH higher priced than in California. I don't really see how one can blame a buyer for driving up costs that the SELLER has listed. Recently, our housing market is slowing - finally!- and we have no intentions of making out big...because when you sell you have to find something else to live in that is affordable.
I worry about having the RIGHT to have a wood burning fireplace in my home...that is being denied in several California cities already...I am not sure where Montana and Colorado and Wyoming stand in this...but the freedoms we have enjoyed are being challenged everywhere.
Now, where do I find info on water rights, fireplace rights and the such??!