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Location: Approximately 50 miles from Missoula MT/38 yrs full time after 4 yrs part time
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........The purpose (my purpose) of this Thread (this post) is to try and simplfy and summarize some basic fundamental facts, opinions and observations as related to several recent Threads and Posts:
.............("If you are considering Missoula".....;"Montana won't solve your problems"....."A few questions about Missoula"....."Considering a move to Montana--Questions"; and several others that are all quite similiar in nature).......................
I think (IMHO) that some basic beliefs and opinions that many of us hold, have been "kinda pushed into the background" recently, and possibly should be restated:............
i.e.: #1/ The intelligent and resourceful potential transplant to Montana should have become aware by his (research, visiting etc,etc) that he "likes" and is "accepting of" the way "things are" in the area (town) that he might move to. If he would like to see "things" be similiar to where he came from...."HE IS NOT A 'GOOD-FIT". If his "skills" and work experience are not compatible with the requirements of the area..........THAT'S HIS FAULT...don't expect the area to change to fit him!!
#2/ Regarding: Employment & (unemployment); Industry; Manufacturing; etc.
Some facts gleaned from various Internet Sites: (comparing CO & MT)
(all figures are approx: internet sources vary)
......Montana: Current unemployment:..................................7.4 %
Current % of jobs in Manufacturing..................4.2%
Current population ...................................971,000
1965 Population......................................70 6,000
Population density per sq mile..........................6.66
Population growth from 1965 to 2010................37 %
......Colorado: Current unemployment...................................9.2 %
Current % of jobs in Manufacturing...................5.7%
Current population...................................5,100 ,000
1965 population.................................... 1,800,000
Population density per sq mile.........................49.0
Population growth from 1965 to 2010..............283 %
.....yea, 283% growth!!
How do you think THIS effected your normal daily "way-of-life".
Unless you were living there (as I was)....you CAN'T know!!
As I stated in my post of 4/25 (post #3) "Montana won't solve your problems":
Colorado (since 1965) allowed and "pushed for" the introduction of all kinds of
companies in various types of manufacturing, industry etc.
.........What did it do for the state?????
It went from a state (very similiar to what MT is now) to a state that
has: (a) 1.8 % higher unemployment than Montana...yes HIGHER that MT!!
(b) a density of people (per/sq/mile) 7 1/2 times greater than Montana
(c) mountains and other types of recreational areas that are
over crowded, over-used, higher priced (ski tickets-example) etc
(d) hunting and fishing opportunities are greatly reduced
(e) traffic jams and problems in many, many cities that make our
Montana traffic situations look "like child's play"
The above and at least another 100 comparisons, show what can and
will happen if Montana follows in the "foot-prints" of Colorado: i.e.
Bring in all kinds of industry, manufacturing etc that will over the
long-pull: change it from what it was (that so many of us moved
here to enjoy and love).......to a totally exploited state.
(NOTE: all this industry, manufacturing and expansion sure as hell
isn't reflected in Colorado's "EMPLOYMENT FIGURES!!"
Do we want this to happen in Montana!!!!? Hell NO!
Sooooooooo: If your jobs skills and employment background don't fit the jobs that are available where you THINK you want to move to in Montana,
and your primary reason to move here is not: "I love it as it was (is) when I found it"........ then I'd suggest you try one of the other "49".
For those that have moved here from elsewhere and appear prone to voice their dis-pleasure regarding various aspects of living here and what "we have OR don't have" and how much better life would be if we had "such & such"....
.......IMHO, either "suck-it-up"; accept things as they are, or move on.
.......QUALIFING DISCLAIMER........ Since I first came through western Montana some 50 years ago; bought land here some 35 years ago; lived here part time off & on for about 4 years and have lived here full time 32 years in the home I built with my own hands..................I feel somewhat qualified to comment as I have done above.
Obviously, I am open to other's opinions and comments and will respect them. When you get to be my age (and yes, I'm damn proud of it), you have a tendency to look at things in general with a different perspective than you would, when you are in you 40s, or 50s.
And in a very general sense:.......................MONTANA, love it or leave it.
And yes..............the Pinio Grigio is exceptionly fine today
Nothing wrong with having pride in where you live.
but.
folks are free to live where they want and to express their opinions.
When I bought property in Colorado (back in the 80's) you saw a lot of bumper stickers saying
" welcome to colorful Colorado, now that you've seen it go home"
Why would you be threatened by what someone else does?
why do you care?
It seams funny that folks who don't like to be told how to live or what to do sure like to tell others what to do.
I'll be buying some land in MT soon. will it fix my problems
only a qualified professional has a chance at that.
I'm not looking for work ,I'll bring my business with me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Montana Griz
...
And in a very general sense:.......................MONTANA, love it or leave it.
Nothing wrong with having pride in where you live.
but.
folks are free to live where they want and to express their opinions.
When I bought property in Colorado (back in the 80's) you saw a lot of bumper stickers saying
" welcome to colorful Colorado, now that you've seen it go home"
Why would you be threatened by what someone else does?
why do you care?
It seams funny that folks who don't like to be told how to live or what to do sure like to tell others what to do.
I'll be buying some land in MT soon. will it fix my problems
only a qualified professional has a chance at that.
Why would we care? We love our state and are not happy with what is becoming of it, subdivisions, huge homes carving out the sides of our mountains, "big money" moving in when Montana IS NOT a "big money" state, and turning Montana into what people moving here are moving here to get away from. That's why we care. Most of us work hard to be FORTUNATE enough live here and raise our families here and we take offense to people who move here with the "I'm here and there's nothing you can do about it" attitude. Move to our town with that attitude and you will most likely want to move within the first year. It's people with that attitude that causes us to feel threatened with good cause. You move here, you adapt and conform, not us.
I'm not looking for work ,I'll bring my business with me.
Unless you are going to supply some much needed jobs with your business, you will most likely be considered "big money" if your business benefits you alone. There is this saying "Montanans helping Montana".
Why would we care? We love our state and are not happy with what is becoming of it, subdivisions, huge homes carving out the sides of our mountains, Let's get this strait it's not the folks who are looking for a place to live that are selling off theie land for a subdivision, it's the Montanans.
It seams like Montanans are selling out for "big money" there selling off ranch land.
It's not the buyers fault it's for sale. (I will not be buying into a subdivision as I don't care for covenants.)
"big money" moving in when Montana IS NOT a "big money" state, and turning Montana into what people moving here are moving here to get away from. That's why we care.
Yes, we all are leery of the refugees from cali,
These rich folks you speak of bring with them money, They hire local construction to build, they buy products in MT, if you do not want then to build in certain areas you need to change how you zone an area.
There moving their for the same reasons you love it.
Most of us work hard to be FORTUNATE enough live here and raise our families here and we take offense to people who move here with the "I'm here and there's nothing you can do about it" attitude.
I and other folks also work hard to live, your no different than most folks.
or I lived here first, don't you dare to move here too attitude.
Is laughable.
Move to our town with that attitude and you will most likely want to move within the first year. It's people with that attitude that causes us to feel threatened with good cause. You move here, you adapt and conform, not us.
I agree with this but not all of us are moving with the intent of changing anything and are moving because of the way it is already.
Unless you are going to supply some much needed jobs with your business, you will most likely be considered "big money" if your business benefits you alone. There is this saying "Montanans helping Montana".
Big money because I own a business that supports my family and 2 or 3 others. (I won't be needing a job, I'll bring it with me)
and so will my wife who is also employed at her own job. (She doesn't work for me)
That is the funnest thing I have heard in a long time.
On the flip side I should wait until I'm broke and unemployed then move so I will be a drain on MT and need a job or take one from someone who is already employed.
Land Of The Free.
I understand your pride and I'm happy to see it.
But don't lump everyone into the same pile
That is not what I'm saying. Those who have come before you with the "I'm here so YOU change and like" attitude is what ticks me off. As far as "big money", I'm refering to those from "big money" states who have made their fortunes there, come here for the nature, peace, tranquility, wildlife aspect, bring their "big money", use that "big money" to destroy what they have moved here for. If you move here to be a Montanan and ENJOY what Montana has to offer more power to ya, we are happy you are here. If you bring your own work even better (less competition), but bring a business in that you COULD employ residents but don't, then that is a shut down. Just because you own a business does not make you "big money", I was refering to those who do come with money, want to enjoy and benefit from what Montana has to offer and not give back. My parents own multiple businesses all over Montana and they are far from "big money". Big money are those from like (example here, no offense to anyone) Cali. who sell their home there for an astronomical amount, move here, build even bigger but build it right in the middle of what they consider pristine natural land. We see it happen all the time here and it's a shame. No offense to you that you work hard for your family either. We work hard for ours too, the only difference is that we have been here from the start and have lifetimes invested in our state. For those who move here and want the same thing, go for it. That's one other thing that makes Montana great.
Yes, my thread may offend alot of folks who want to move here or have already come. If you aren't here yet or haven't been here long, you haven't noticed the changes here directly related to newcomers. Most changes are good but the bad are hard to swallow.
I see we agree on more that I first thought we did.
I too have seen the changes,
As we have traveled across MT WY and CO over the years (since the 80's) and I will have to say, I don't always like what I see.
We would have bought property long ago (back in the 80's) but life, family and making a living got in the way.
This isn't a new idea nor are we big money by any stretch of imagination. Just Avg middle class folks who got stuck in north east MN.
We're not looking for a vacation home or a retirement getaway
but a place we can call home and assimilate into the area.
I've worked on ranches in CO and dairy farms in WI, I like rural areas and the folks who live there.
I think we'll be just fine.
Why would you be threatened by what someone else does? why do you care?
When they move in next door to my ag operation that's been there for decades, and complain nonstop about those stinky cows, til they get me shut down? Yeah, then I care. They've just threatened my livelihood, never mind my way of life.
That kind of thing happens a lot more than you might think. It can be the final straw and the over-the-top expense that kills a struggling business (and most ag is struggling in today's market).
Was it long time residents in Montana that shut down logging? Nope. Long time Residents knew that thinning the forest kept the forest healthier and reduced the fire hazard. But out of state people moved in and said, "Don't touch the trees on the pretty mountains around me, you'll ruin my view." Wonder just how many jobs were lost on that? How's the price of lumber now that most lumber comes from Canada?
Was it long time residents in Montana that stopped wolf hunting? Nope. It was special interest groups from OUT OF STATE that decided they knew more about Montana's habitat, elk feeding, ranching with cattle and sheep and determined that the pretty wolf should be left alone and not managed by the people that saw the wolves destroy the habitat of other animals. The residents come up with a number they could live with, they didn't want to eradicate the wolves, just manage their numbers in ranch areas. But being residents that have lived there for decades, makes them stupid and they don't know what's good for them. It's much better to have somebody observe after 2 days in a motel and a rental car determine what's good for the state.
How's the coal mining in Montana? Used to open a pit, take out the coal, then reclaim the land to 95% of what it looked like originally. Everybody needs coal, but today, new residents don't want a mine opened up because it ruins their view.
Do people think that the gangs in Helena, Great Falls, Billings, etc... were long term Montana residents that got bored and decided they were tired of following the law?
Wonder if anybody has any idea of the count of homes that were built so that somebody could use them for 2 weeks every year, but demand that residents around them pay to have an access road built and maintained 365 days a year. They visit for 3 days during Christmas and raise hell because their 8 mile long county road wasn't plowed and free of snow.
It's just "little things" like this that have people in Montana upset.
It's special interest groups from out of state that want those big Wind Farms because they think Montana should go green. But none of those special interest groups want the power trunk lines run through their property, or even near their property. It seems that special interest groups know what's best for "Everybody else".
Site won't let me rep you Elkhunter, but you and Reziac and Montana Griz have framed the situation perfectly.
Add to your comments the roads that have been closed blocking off access to state land, forest land and traditional hunting areas, closed access to fishing waters so now you have to find a bridge crossing the creek or river and walk or float or canoe for miles to reach waters that used to be a short walk away.
Look at all the wonderful "no trespassing" signs or orange fenceposts all over the place.
I personally don't appreciate the daily attacks in court on activities, jobs and pest control that come up on a daily basis from out of state eko groups trying to shut down life in Montana to residents and making the state into a playground for the rich and shameless.
I really find it funny when people move under the airport in Great Falls and demand that taxpayers pay to soundproof their homes, or move next to a shooting range that has been there for 50 years and loudly proclaim that it is dangerous to their new mcmansion or that the noise lowers their property values.
We actually had a new arrival tell my father that he shouldn't ship his calves in the fall because the cows mooing sounded so mournful
A little common sense and working with the residents and not against us would go a long way to change the prevailing attitudes toward new arrivals.
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(and yes, I'm damn proud of it), you have a tendency to look at things in general with a different perspective than you would, when you are in you 40s, or 50s.
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