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Old 09-08-2007, 07:14 AM
 
Location: LEAVING CD
22,952 posts, read 22,479,604 times
Reputation: 15493

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I think a point being missed is the double edged sword, in order for our young to stay here and make enough to pay off loans, own a house and such the area has to grow to create the need for the companies to move here and jobs that come from that.
Everything goes up, not just houses. Heck, gas just jumped 10 cents a gallon, all the basics have gone up and so has the cost to go to school. Which also drives up the cost of a house. It costs at least 25% more to build today than it did just 2 years ago so either people raise house prices or they eat it which you know is not going to happen.
It's not just limited to here, it's happening all over the nation, we are not an isolated island here as much as some would like it that way. Now if we could get the employers to break from the long standing tradition of not paying anything here and start paying enough to live on then maybe our kids could stay. Maybe it's time to add some basic worker protections to our laws? While I like the fact that most in MT don't like many laws there becomes a time where you quit trusting that someone will do what's right and moral because of their prior track record and force them to do it. I figure when one holds a pile of money in one hand and what's right in the other one hand wins out and it generally is not what's right for everyone. When they can work people as young as 14 yrs old for 12 hours straight with no breaks, and pretty much do what they please then it's time for some kind of hand slap. Even in the old days on the farm everyone got breaks. Yes they worked hard but were fed well and treated with respect which is another thread I guess.
Again, you can't trust everyone to do the right thing when your talking bunches of money.
The nepotism from school jobs to banks needs to stop, people need to hire,promote and yes fire on merit, not the good ole boy network.
This includes everyone from Wal-Mart to the local coffee stand. The days around here of your employees being like your family have definately died away (for the most part) unfortunately which is fine but there should be some protections.
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Old 09-08-2007, 08:43 AM
 
1,001 posts, read 2,810,826 times
Reputation: 356
I agree with having a living wage law.

Re: economic growth, I think the issue is with balance. Most places dealing with growth have no sense of "enough is enough." And its primarily because a small syndicate of those in power stand to make a lot of money from growth.

Read Cadillac Desert and/or wiki "California Water Wars" to see how a small group of people stole water from the Owens Valley, manipulated control of all of the land and water rights, bought land in the then worthless San Fernando Valley, which turned into a goldmine when the water was brought there.

"There it is. Take it."

Same sh*t's happening in all of our western cities and regions. Hell, Boise has an impending water problem. Everyone knows about it. Yet our local CoC and Planning Department keeps looking for ways to advertise Boise and to "find ways to keep growing." To them more people = more building, more taxes, more development, which = more money brought in, and they have their hand in the jar at some point in the process.

It's amazing how little foresight and conscience people have when it comes to money.
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Old 09-08-2007, 09:46 AM
 
68 posts, read 202,077 times
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Didn't the Montana voters, vote against a water quality department.
Many folks, thought it would only bring on more harmful restrictions. Yes that might be so, but growth is going to happen regardless of new policies or no policies.Whether we feel it is our right to use or horde our water, it just will not work. I watched what happened to the Puget sound areas. during the 80's and 90's, washington born and raised people were furious at the rape of everything that was good. We groaned and moaned, for a long time, until the "Natives" finally began working with the problem.
Growth is going to happen, it is a problem of expotiential numbers.
I suggest the people of Montana, get involved as much as possible, and
come down hard on the people who disregard the new laws, (One home for Two acres). People are not going to stop selling their land, and developers
are not going to quit buying it and developing.Try your best to contain this by getting involved.Say no to cookie cutter housing, but demand good looking real estate. try to enact laws and codes to protect wildlife, and your way of life.
Here is my parting thought...Do enough citizens think a ten foot fence along
every major highway would be to much to ask.It seems if a highway can be installed or updated at the cost of ? millions per mile, how could a wild animal fence add so much? I t would protect animals from ugly deaths and drop auto insurance rates.
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Old 09-08-2007, 12:09 PM
 
1,001 posts, read 2,810,826 times
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I agree. The rub is that enacting growth and zoning restrictions flies in the face of the "libertarian" ethos Montanans are proud of.

They'll learn when it's too late.
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Old 09-08-2007, 07:54 PM
 
Location: LEAVING CD
22,952 posts, read 22,479,604 times
Reputation: 15493
Kind of like "we'll be darned if anyone will tell US what we can do with OUR land, now stop those people from developing their land" As for the critter fence, I've got to disagree with that idea, highways are ugly enough without adding miles of steel. There are plenty of deer, an over abundance really. As for lowering rates, that alone probably wouldn't do much...
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Old 09-08-2007, 08:04 PM
 
Location: Southwest Missouri
1,921 posts, read 5,651,488 times
Reputation: 910
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arleigh-20 View Post
Here is my parting thought...Do enough citizens think a ten foot fence along
every major highway would be to much to ask.It seems if a highway can be installed or updated at the cost of ? millions per mile, how could a wild animal fence add so much? I t would protect animals from ugly deaths and drop auto insurance rates.
Respectfully, that's a terrible idea. First, the landscape would be ruined by thousands of miles of fence put along every major highway. Second, it won't work because you can't fence off all of the intersecting roads. There will still be a lot of openings. Third, animals are more likely to wander into the openings and then get "trapped" along the roads trying to find their way back out.
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Old 09-08-2007, 08:07 PM
 
Location: Southwest Missouri
1,921 posts, read 5,651,488 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anchorless View Post
I agree with having a living wage law.
Why? A living wage law will only further drive up the cost of living as employers raise prices to keep pace with the new laws. Personally, I think that the minimum wage is a joke. The government can dictate a "minimum wage" all they want, but each time it gets hiked up the people who are supposed to benefit end up seeing their dollars buy less and less.
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Old 09-08-2007, 08:52 PM
 
68 posts, read 202,077 times
Reputation: 40
As far as miles of fence being ugly, I would disagree. The wood and wire sort of hides it self, they certainly look better than a morgue of dead deer and blood skids, one can see, traveling the bitteroot, in the right seasons.

The problem of a deer being caught on the wrong side of the fence, is one, I hadn't thought about. I guess there is no solution to this, as long as cars are king. Maybe some day anti-gravity cars will be in use, and we will fly to work,like geese in formation!
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Old 09-10-2007, 08:33 AM
 
Location: Southwest Missouri
1,921 posts, read 5,651,488 times
Reputation: 910
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arleigh-20 View Post
I guess there is no solution to this, as long as cars are king. Maybe some day anti-gravity cars will be in use, and we will fly to work,like geese in formation!
Then we'll be taking out the geese and ducks.

You're right about the never-ending battle between man's progress and nature. Nature almost always loses.
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Old 09-10-2007, 09:43 AM
 
495 posts, read 365,438 times
Reputation: 96
OK, back to the orginal question - "What is to much (profit)

With all due respect, this is a stupid question. Remember "a fool and his money are soon parted" - and this is america afterall. If some wants to throw away their money it's their right.

I kind of look at it this way.

Joe Blow buys a house in 1990 for 30K - in 2007 he askes and gets 500k, now if I wanna take out a mortage and financially strap myself to the hilt, well that's my right - right. Hey I figure with 500k and the addition interest by the time I get it paid off it will cost me a cool million - yup the good lord but me on earth to slave my life away and make other people rich, it's my right to be as dumb as I like.
So you see, I will spend the rest of my life working so that Joe Blow can retire now and the banker can get his 3rd house on Flathead lake. It's the american way and I don't mind doing my part even if I have to work 3 jobs to support someone else's life style. Afterall you never know when someday I'll get my chance to screw someone else out of all their time and money - you gotta love america where even a dumb bubba like me can get greedy and lucky - actually I think I'm really screwed after taking on that mortgage, And it really ticks me off when I'm slaving away at this stupid job and I think that Joe Blow is home napping in his yard and sucking on expensive yuppie wine, retired at 50 because I was such and idiot to give him $500k for this little 800 sq/ft crappy house in the missoula um district, what an idiot I am.
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