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No, I don't believe being pro-military is the same as being pro-militarism. In fact, I wish more candidates were anti-militarism. Ron Paul is a perfect example of this. He was in the air force himself, and he definitely is not against the people in the military, but he's definitely against using our military to fight unconstitutional and immoral wars overseas.
Believe it or not, I think we can see a glimpse of this with Donal Trump. He's constantly demonstrating his support for veterans, and even referred to himself as the "most pro-military person you know" or something like that. However, he very explicitly stated that he was against the Iraq war in 2003.
Speaking of Trump, I'm becoming a bigger fan of him every day. What sucks for us is that the Montana primaries are not until June....but if he's still in the race by then, which I think is very possible, I will definitely vote for him, and I think he'd win Montana....both in the primary and the general election.
I never, ever imagined myself saying such a thing, but...the man is growing on me, too.
Even if, say, the 2016 ballot gives us something like Bernie Sanders vs Jeb Bush (let's just pretend, okay?), I would forfeit support for Sanders and give Trump the write-in, at least at this point.
I do think Trump could win the Montana primary so long as it remains an open primary. If the MT GOP is ever to be successful in closing the primary, we'll be in the Rick Santorum victory category for as long as that whackjob keeps vying.
No, I don't believe being pro-military is the same as being pro-militarism. In fact, I wish more candidates were anti-militarism. Ron Paul is a perfect example of this. He was in the air force himself, and he definitely is not against the people in the military, but he's definitely against using our military to fight unconstitutional and immoral wars overseas.
Believe it or not, I think we can see a glimpse of this with Donal Trump. He's constantly demonstrating his support for veterans, and even referred to himself as the "most pro-military person you know" or something like that. However, he very explicitly stated that he was against the Iraq war in 2003.
Speaking of Trump, I'm becoming a bigger fan of him every day. What sucks for us is that the Montana primaries are not until June....but if he's still in the race by then, which I think is very possible, I will definitely vote for him, and I think he'd win Montana....both in the primary and the general election.
people who have served in the military can and have been anti-military. Take Howard Zinn as one example.
Blowhards like Trump often trump up their support for veterans. but when judging a man by his actions and deeds and not his words alone --- Donald Trump who attended a military academy and should have shown more honor and dignity, dodged the draft at least 4 times
Roste, I unequivocally welcome you to move to Montana should you make that decision, and it's safe to say that you and I don't align politically in many ways; however, is it your place to move here and tell me that my values cannot or should not be expressed or promoted in the public sphere via, say, voting? If so, I strongly beg to differ and would have to second-guess the extent to which I should welcome you.
I was here first, remember.
Sorry if I am no longer welcomed to Montana.. Maybe, I can write a letter to the governor begging for a pardon to be allowed re-admission to your state. Just so you know, I live in a place where liberals love to shove their views down your throat.. Maybe, I am getting fed up with constantly being treated like the "bad guy" because I am so horrible to the poor, gays, women, children, homeless people. Yes, I am like a murderer in their eyes. How dare I be against a woman's choice or not for giving half my life savings to the poor suffering homeless, believing in some evil man-made religion or being so homophobic (BTW, I support freedom for gays, as I oppose theocracy). If that is what MOntana is, then I guess Wyoming and Idaho are other choices. Yeah, I had a guy in a bar in Boise once start insulting me as a woman murderer because I said I thought abortion was wrong. He comes up to me and starts making fun of Christians and asking me what I think about abortion. I shared my views and then the guy starts spewing his venom on me. This is what we call liberal tolerance! Oh, how I embrace the joys of living so freedly in a liberal stronghold!
I wasn't telling you anything, my post was addressed at the guy from New York who was promoting abortion as a liberal value. Obviously, many people are wholeheartedly against abortion, much more than raising taxes or sexual preferences, etc. He obviously has an agenda.
But maybe you do too. SInce you are the owner of MOntana and think any view that contrasts to your own means that you have been challenged, I guess I better ask you to write the letter to the governor on my behalf for forgiveness.. I am sorry that my political views challenge you and therefore challenge the entire state of Montana.
I am not one to shove my views in others face. For example, if I wrote a post saying I want to live in a place where gay pride parades are not allowed, I bet the liberals here would be screaming bloody murder. But, somehow, this guy who goes on supporting abortion, is considered an honorable person to you and I the villain for opposing his views.
It sounds to me that you don't believe Montana should be a democracy, but rather a liberal theocracy. I hope I am misunderstanding your intentions here.
P.S.
Just because you can tolerate the liberal views (such as child abortion), of the OP, doesn't mean a majority of other MOntanans will. The Montanan people I met when visiting where quite conservative and many were religious. Now, remember, I didn't spend much time in Missoula. Missoula is one town, hardly a city and doesn't represent "Montana" as a whole.
Last edited by RotseCherut; 07-25-2015 at 09:40 PM..
Sorry if I am no longer welcomed to Montana.. Maybe, I can write a letter to the governor begging for a pardon to be allowed re-admission to your state. Just so you know, I live in a place where liberals love to shove their views down your throat.. Maybe, I am getting fed up with constantly being treated like the "bad guy" because I am so horrible to the poor, gays, women, children, homeless people. Yes, I am like a murderer in their eyes. How dare I be against a woman's choice or not for giving half my life savings to the poor suffering homeless, believing in some evil man-made religion or being so homophobic (BTW, I support freedom for gays, as I oppose theocracy). If that is what MOntana is, then I guess Wyoming and Idaho are other choices. Yeah, I had a guy in a bar in Boise once start insulting me as a woman murderer because I said I thought abortion was wrong. He comes up to me and starts making fun of Christians and asking me what I think about abortion. I shared my views and then the guy starts spewing his venom on me. This is what we call liberal tolerance! Oh, how I embrace the joys of living so freedly in a liberal stronghold!
I wasn't telling you anything, my post was addressed at the guy from New York who was promoting abortion as a liberal value. Obviously, many people are wholeheartedly against abortion, much more than raising taxes or sexual preferences, etc. He obviously has an agenda.
But maybe you do too. SInce you are the owner of MOntana and think any view that contrasts to your own means that you have been challenged, I guess I better ask you to write the letter to the governor on my behalf for forgiveness.. I am sorry that my political views challenge you and therefore challenge the entire state of Montana.
I am not one to shove my views in others face. For example, if I wrote a post saying I want to live in a place where gay pride parades are not allowed, I bet the liberals here would be screaming bloody murder. But, somehow, this guy who goes on supporting abortion, is considered an honorable person to you and I the villain for opposing his views.
It sounds to me that you don't believe Montana should be a democracy, but rather a liberal theocracy. I hope I am misunderstanding your intentions here.
P.S.
Just because you can tolerate the liberal views (such as child abortion), of the OP, doesn't mean a majority of other MOntanans will. The Montanan people I met when visiting where quite conservative and many were religious. Now, remember, I didn't spend much time in Missoula. Missoula is one town, hardly a city and doesn't represent "Montana" as a whole.
Democracy? The thing most feared by the folks who wrote the US Constitution and feared by many, a majority (funny) of those who ratified it?
Democracy? The thing most feared by the folks who wrote the US Constitution and feared by many, a majority (funny) of those who ratified it?
Democratic systems within a republic.
I think you have it backwards, a little bit... What they feared was the death of democracy, by means of democracy.. The Constitution was a set of principles to guard democracy from the fallacies of humankind who seek to abuse the democratic system. When democracy dies we have totalitarianism and dictatorship, which is what our Founding Fathers fought a very bloody, hard , long and miserable war against.
I think you have it backwards, a little bit... What they feared was the death of democracy, by means of democracy.. The Constitution was a set of principles to guard democracy from the fallacies of humankind who seek to abuse the democratic system. When democracy dies we have totalitarianism and dictatorship, which is what our Founding Fathers fought a very bloody, hard , long and miserable war against.
Huh? I seriously think you are seriously misinformed. I have been reading (for the past few years) up on the ideological roots of the colonists and early Americans (USA). They were no fans of democracy. That is an indisputable fact.
The colonists did not fight against totalitarianism and dictatorship, because those things come about through democracy...mob rule. Our constitution mostly protects the minority from mob rule. The colonists were mostly loyal subjects of the King of England who fought over the lack of representation in the Parliament. At the first Continental Congress the New England delegations were warned that most every other colony was wary of any idea or independence. they were against it. Do you really want to debate or would you like a few references of truly fascinating stuff on the history of the USA?
people who have served in the military can and have been anti-military. Take Howard Zinn as one example.
Blowhards like Trump often trump up their support for veterans. but when judging a man by his actions and deeds and not his words alone --- Donald Trump who attended a military academy and should have shown more honor and dignity, dodged the draft at least 4 times
Sir, I know it might not be the most glorious thing what Trump did during Vietnam, but I'm not aware that he did anything illegal. He didn't flee to Canada, either. I certainly understand why you would think of Trump as dishonorable, but I have no sympathy for McCain. McCain's "honorable" past may not be what it appears. Check out this excellent article by Ron Unz.
As far as I know, Trump has an excellent record with supporting veterans. So far, in this campaign, he's VERY popular with veterans and his war of words with McCain apparently did not sink him. Rest assured that I'm not predicting him to win the republican nomination...at least not yet. Unfortunately, I think Jeb Bush is still the favorite...and if that turns out to be the case, I'll vote for the constitution or libertarian party, or whatever limited government third party is on the ballot.
Sir, I know it might not be the most glorious thing what Trump did during Vietnam, but I'm not aware that he did anything illegal. He didn't flee to Canada, either. I certainly understand why you would think of Trump as dishonorable, but I have no sympathy for McCain. McCain's "honorable" past may not be what it appears. Check out this excellent article by Ron Unz.
As far as I know, Trump has an excellent record with supporting veterans. So far, in this campaign, he's VERY popular with veterans and his war of words with McCain apparently did not sink him. Rest assured that I'm not predicting him to win the republican nomination...at least not yet. Unfortunately, I think Jeb Bush is still the favorite...and if that turns out to be the case, I'll vote for the constitution or libertarian party, or whatever limited government third party is on the ballot.
Illegal? Morality and ethics of a person go to not what they do that is legal or illegal, but what they do that is right and not right.
What Trump did during the 'nam was not right and he compounded that by lying about it.
People like Trump did not have to flee to Canada. How old are you? Do you remember? Poor people fled to Canada and they also served in greater numbers
McCain's past is honorable and exemplary.
I know of few people who given an offer to go home in his condition would not have taken that choice -- and we should not condemn anyone that would. Unless you were tortured and injured like McCain you and I have no ground to criticize.
I am disappointed and troubled that you would attempt an assassination of McCain's character by hiding behind a hit piece by Ron -- "I have no personal knowledge of the Vietnam War myself nor do I possess expertise in that area of history." Unz who deserves a beating in public. I've been a liberal and a Democrat and even voted for liberal Republicans in my life. McCain and I are polar opposites on many things, but to denigrate his service and attempt to criticize his behaviour and actions in captivity is below what an honorable and civilized man would do.
Illegal? Morality and ethics of a person go to not what they do that is legal or illegal, but what they do that is right and not right.
What Trump did during the 'nam was not right and he compounded that by lying about it.
People like Trump did not have to flee to Canada. How old are you? Do you remember? Poor people fled to Canada and they also served in greater numbers
McCain's past is honorable and exemplary.
I know of few people who given an offer to go home in his condition would not have taken that choice -- and we should not condemn anyone that would. Unless you were tortured and injured like McCain you and I have no ground to criticize.
I am disappointed and troubled that you would attempt an assassination of McCain's character by hiding behind a hit piece by Ron -- "I have no personal knowledge of the Vietnam War myself nor do I possess expertise in that area of history." Unz who deserves a beating in public. I've been a liberal and a Democrat and even voted for liberal Republicans in my life. McCain and I are polar opposites on many things, but to denigrate his service and attempt to criticize his behaviour and actions in captivity is below what an honorable and civilized man would do.
We'll just have to agree to disagree on this. I despise John McCain basically for his actions as a politician. By providing the link to Ron Unz's article, I'm not hiding behind anything. Don't attack the messenger. If there are falsehoods in the article, feel free to identify it, but to throw ad hominem attacks at me or the author of the article is fallacious. I'm no longer convinced that McCain's past is as honorable as the establishment presents it to be. In fact, it may be downright dishonorable. In fairness, though, rest assured, that I'm not taking the Unz's article as gospel truth. I'm doing my own research. I'm trying to look at as many sources as I can. I just listed that one to demonstrate that there might be evidence that McCain is not the person that the elite and establishment media presents him to be......and it is an excellent article, as far as I can tell. However, if you can factually dispute it, go ahead and make your case.
I don't care how honorable his service MAY have been. That doesn't make him immune from criticism, and it certainly doesn't make him immune from his past being checked out. Using your logic, we should just take everyone at their word. Do you think there is ever a place for healthy skepticism....or do you just believe your preferred dogma, even if the actual facts contradict it?
Did you even read the article? You didn't even say whether you thought the article was true or not. You just dismissed it as a "hit piece". Well, let's just say that the article is 100% verifiable truth. Are you just going to dismiss it because it contradicts your narrative that McCain is some great war hero? Again, you engaged in a fallacy by attacking me and Unz, instead of actually addressing the article. Also, when you quote someone, it's best to not quote someone out of context, as it reflects poorly on your integrity.
Last edited by Antonio Montana; 07-25-2015 at 11:16 PM..
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