Vehicle Inspections (Bozeman: home, college, car inspection)

[Reziac]

Originally Posted by bigtrees

... the railyard where the diesel engines sit and idle all day long. I never figured out why they don't shut them off when they're not using them but that's a subject for another thread.

My understanding is that it's more economical to keep those big diesels running than it is to shut them off -- they take too long to get to running temperature again, so you don't really gain anything by shutting down, and may actually wind up using *more* fuel. This is especially true in winter, when you have to heat the fuel just to get it to flow.

This is a lot like how it's usually cheaper to just keep your house lukewarm at night than to let it cool down entirely -- takes more fuel to heat it back up to lukewarm than to just keep it there in the first place, because you've got to reheat the walls and ceiling as well as the air.

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[Montana Baby]

Originally Posted by jimj

With all that being said I'm guessing I've got about as much chance of that as I do the state actually getting and keeping drunks off the road...

You must drive Highway 93? Only when the person with the 1st DUI not the 4th, 5th, 6th - is actually sentenced to something other than 180 days with all but one day suspended. And if you read the stats expected for the improvements through the rez, then you know that safety is not the main issue since projections are not going get the accidents and deaths down to any average for a like highway.

[jimj]

Originally Posted by Montana Baby

You must drive Highway 93? Only when the person with the 1st DUI not the 4th, 5th, 6th - is actually sentenced to something other than 180 days with all but one day suspended. And if you read the stats expected for the improvements through the rez, then you know that safety is not the main issue since projections are not going get the accidents and deaths down to any average for a like highway.

I do drive 93, mostly in the flathead but monthly to Missoula and it's usually been an interesting trip with either drunks ahead of us or behind us as we get passed them and get away. I guess one day they'll actually get serious about DUI but ufortunately more will have to die before that happens.

[Reziac]

Originally Posted by jimj

I do drive 93, mostly in the flathead but monthly to Missoula and it's usually been an interesting trip with either drunks ahead of us or behind us as we get passed them and get away. I guess one day they'll actually get serious about DUI but ufortunately more will have to die before that happens.

"I drive Highway 93. Pray for me." -- MHP bumper sticker from the 1970s

When Tom Sabo was city judge in Bozeman, he was known as a hangin' judge for DUIs. One offense and you lost your license. Needless to say, this was lauded as wonderful by some and panned as overkill by others.

I say give the drunks their own lane, and let natural selection do its job.

[jazzlover]

Originally Posted by bigtrees

The other issue that Whitefish has been fighting for years (without success) is the place where the particulates are measured is right near the railyard where the diesel engines sit and idle all day long. I never figured out why they don't shut them off when they're not using them but that's a subject for another thread.

Actually, a lot of headway has been made with technology. Many of the newer locomotives are fitted with electronic controls that will automatically shut the "prime mover" (the diesel engine itself) down if the locomotive is sitting and other parameters are met (outside temperature above freezing, engine temperature within range, etc.). Many newer locomotives also have the capability to drop down to a very low idle speed to reduce both fuel use and emissions when the locomotive is sitting. Those locomotives can be very efficient, as well, using maybe 5 times as much fuel to idle as a typical automobile, even though their engine size may be more than 50 times larger in total cubic-inch displacement compared to an automobile.

Where I'm sure Whitefish gets a lot of idling locomotives stems from the fact that it is a crew change point on the railroad. Trains sit at Whitefish long enough to change crews, and that is usually too short of a period to make shutdown of the locomotives practical. There are a lot of trains in and out of there in a day.

[Nedrick]

Originally Posted by Reziac

Here in California, the smog test program likes to take credit for the much-reduced air pollution levels.

I think the actual cause is something different: ALL the heavy industry that used to be here is GONE. Driven out of the state by greedy unions and increasingly onerous gov't regulations, to the point that it was impossible to break even, let alone make a profit. So any manufactury that had a smokestack is long gone.

Just about any tolerably tuned-up car will pass the smog test -- my 30 year old pickup does so with flying colours, IF the smog station has clean equipment. Funny thing, most of 'em have dirty equipment, so you're really getting everyone's smog being blamed on each and every car. So some pass and some don't, without much logic to it. Mine tested at way over limit at one station and way UNDER limit at another (with noticeably cleaner equipment), and the difference wasn't a little bit, it was over 300%. My 29 year old car (presently non-op'd cuz I don't drive it anymore, but too nice to send to the crusher) passed even at the "dirty" smog test station, and that was right after it left Montana. (It was my mom's car.)

The test and cert cost $50 to $60 per year (older vehicles have to do it every year, newer ones every other year), plus you can be forced to make up to $500 in repairs to get your vehicle to pass, and worst case, they can force you to "retire" it. But beyond that, there's also a hidden cost: way more cars go to the crusher that really were NOT "gross polluters" but rather were victims of dirty test equipment. And way more people feel like they have to buy new cars that they can't really afford, leading to more debt at a time when that's the worst thing you can do for yourself and the economy.

And there are no longer any decent used cars available in this state that a teenager or a new young couple just starting out can really afford to buy -- bottom end on actually-driveable used cars is about $4000 (maybe a little less from some fly-by-night), but realistically most dealers won't carry anything priced under $12,000. So the only way to get even a used vehicle is to go into more debt than a young person can truly handle.

So... yeah, nearly all the cars on the road in California are less than 5 years old, and smog ain't what it used to be, but the cost to consumers and to business has run into billions of dollars. That's billions that could have been doing something productive, like keeping people employed so they can *afford* to buy a newer, cleaner-running car.

As to particulate count, that has nothing to do with vehicle smog, and everything to do with dust, and sometimes woodstove smoke. Anywhere with wind and semi-arid conditions (frex, most dry rangeland), or wind and naked dirt (frex, fallow wheatfields), regularly gets an F rating for particulate count. As to other pollutants, Missoula has been on the 10-worst list numerous times, due to the inversion problem from being in a closed-in valley. Missoula has tried to prohibit woodstoves during inversions, but try telling someone they're not allowed to heat their house with wood they can cut themselves, when it's 10 below zero and propane costs as much as $3 PER MINUTE to heat with.

(Yes, I figured it out, that's what propane actually costs me, and I only have a little wall furnace and keep my house at 62F all winter.)

The smog Nazis were sucessful in getting rid of industry, now their next objective is farmers. First up, the diesel engines that pump the water. Next, the equipment used to plow, seed, cultivate, etc. Then finally, they (Nazis) are trying to regulate the amount of dust created from farming. I just wish that state would break off and fall into the ocean.

[Timberwolf232]

Originally Posted by Reziac

"I drive Highway 93. Pray for me." -- MHP bumper sticker from the 1970s

When Tom Sabo was city judge in Bozeman, he was known as a hangin' judge for DUIs. One offense and you lost your license. Needless to say, this was lauded as wonderful by some and panned as overkill by others.

I say give the drunks their own lane, and let natural selection do its job.

I agree! now if they could only stay in that lane...

[Reziac]

Originally Posted by Nedrick

The smog Nazis were sucessful in getting rid of industry, now their next objective is farmers. First up, the diesel engines that pump the water. Next, the equipment used to plow, seed, cultivate, etc. Then finally, they (Nazis) are trying to regulate the amount of dust created from farming. I just wish that state would break off and fall into the ocean.

Yep... dust from farming in California's central valley was a "polluter" so regulations were put in place to stop dust. Trouble is, that also stopped farming. Last time we made the trip all the way up the state (about a year ago) I noticed that nearly all the land in sight of I-5 that used to be productive farmland had been let go back to weeds ... and in that area, the drought isn't an issue; there's plenty of ground water (IF you can afford to pump it!)

Works both ways, tho, depending on who's doing the dust-polluting. Farms are not big property taxpayers, but big housing developments are a property tax gold mine ... Funny how dust bowls caused by big developments under construction are perfectly acceptable, and are only required to do token dust management.

(Where I am never used to have any blowing dust, despite being in the middle of the desert. Since all those tens of thousands of new homes came in, every time the wind blows from the direction of town, we get a dust storm.)

[Reziac]

Originally Posted by Timberwolf232

I agree! now if they could only stay in that lane...

I suggest having them use the ditch. Cuts the middleman.

[severdsoul]

I have to agree, i'm not for all the regulations, and mess, but there should be a limit.. some of these cars you see driving around i'm amazed that they even run, let alone go down the road.
The city sprays for bugs, dont need the cars to lay down a smoke screen.

It would be a tricky fine line for them to come up with, but i have seen many cars that should not be on the road at all, and dont get me wrong, the newest car i own is a 96 ford truck, the oldest is a 89 cellica and we have a few more inbetween those years, They all have 100K plus on them, and they all are taken care of.. no smoke, no loud noise, its not much to maintain a car, but let go, and they can end up nasty.

I use to live in a state where they had inspections, it was a pain, they went way to far with it. The problem is once they start, and get the idea of having inspections , its easy for them to slap on more regulations at will.
We went from standard inspection, lights, wipers, horn, windshield, had a exaust. to a total car inspection, under the hood, Inspected the motor, the air filters, the tranny, the output from your exaust, breaks, tires, and everything else, and this was not california...
The problem is once they start, they dont stop. They can add stuff easily and even though the cars i have are in great shape, and run fine, they would not pass inspection in the state i lived in. I would have to spend several hundred each car to get them to pass, if not more.


Instead of inspections, they should have the cops do their job and pull the drivers over that are driving things that are putting out more smoke than a factory, and give them a ticket or even a parking order.
same with sounds and other stuff.. i'm sure the laws are there, but they just dont use them.
actualy enforce what is there instead of creating new laws and it should take care of its self.