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A Surfer movie before a decent FF movie is a mistake.
Possible, but The Guardians of the Galaxy and Captain Marvel already cosmic in a big way unlike my remembrance of the source material history. The Silver Surfer can be introduced out there instead of here can be divorced from The Fantastic Four who become part of the post Stark defense of earth.
Possible, but The Guardians of the Galaxy and Captain Marvel already cosmic in a big way unlike my remembrance of the source material history. The Silver Surfer can be introduced out there instead of here can be divorced from The Fantastic Four who become part of the post Stark defense of earth.
If a Norin Radd movie has the same comic yuk-yuk tone as Guardians of the Galaxy and Captain Marvel, I hope Stan Lee rises from the dead and eats the brains of every Disney executive.
The best line in the whole thing, which all screenwriters should write on the back of their hands: “The only real satisfying and memorable victories are the ones you have to fight and struggle for.”
The antagonist should ALWAYS be more formidable than the protagonist. Always. Otherwise the fight is too easy and ends up forgettable.
But yes, the gist of why WONDER WOMAN works (despite its flaws) and CAPTAIN MARVEL fails (despite its merits) came down to the ultimate theme --- at least for me.
WONDER WOMAN isn't really about a strong woman having to struggle to succeed in a man's world. That's a nice branch of the story, but it isn't the root. The theme is the fight against evil, and that is universal --- women, men, rich, poor, religious, secular, young, old. Everyone can identify with that. Diana comes across as a genuine hero because she is strong and she knows it. She doesn't have to prove herself to anyone. She not only uses that strength to fight, but to encourage others to fight. She makes us want to be better.
CAPTAIN MARVEL really is about female empowerment, and that's all its about. That in itself is not a bad message, but the way she achieves it is a lie, and we all know it in our heart of hearts. "Just believe in yourself. It's all about you!" That's not only a lie, it's actually a bit despicable. Wonder Woman was a leader who brought people together. She led by example. She didn't demand respect or admiration. She acted with honor and admirably. Captain Marvel was about being all she could be. I know who I'd rather hang out with.
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Originally Posted by reed067
WW has been around for a long time she “from my understanding was the worlds first female heroine.” No other female hero is or will ever be as iconic.
That's largely true of the DC triumvirate: Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman. They aren't just heroes. They are icons.
It's a very different approach from Marvel, who always strove to emphasize their heroes' humanity. I've often said it's the difference between Mythology (DC) and Shakespeare (Marvel). They are both great in their own way, but they are very different in their approach.
Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman are Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman. That is who they see in their psyche. It is their "isness." Clark Kent, Bruce Wayne, and Diana Prince ... those are the masks. The super hero costume isn't the disguise. The civilian clothes are the disguise.
Marvel heroes are completely opposite. Spider-Man is Peter Parker. Daredevil is Matt Murdock. The Hulk is Bruce Banner. Their super-hero identities are the disguise. Marvel had a few heroes who veered toward the iconic approach (the Fantastic Four), but even there, it was their normal everyday problems that made them endearing, not their super powers.
The best line in the whole thing, which all screenwriters should write on the back of their hands: “The only real satisfying and memorable victories are the ones you have to fight and struggle for.”
The antagonist should ALWAYS be more formidable than the protagonist. Always. Otherwise the fight is too easy and ends up forgettable.
But yes, the gist of why WONDER WOMAN works (despite its flaws) and CAPTAIN MARVEL fails (despite its merits) came down to the ultimate theme --- at least for me.
WONDER WOMAN isn't really about a strong woman having to struggle to succeed in a man's world. That's a nice branch of the story, but it isn't the root. The theme is the fight against evil, and that is universal --- women, men, rich, poor, religious, secular, young, old. Everyone can identify with that. Diana comes across as a genuine hero because she is strong and she knows it. She doesn't have to prove herself to anyone. She not only uses that strength to fight, but to encourage others to fight. She makes us want to be better.
CAPTAIN MARVEL really is about female empowerment, and that's all its about. That in itself is not a bad message, but the way she achieves it is a lie, and we all know it in our heart of hearts. "Just believe in yourself. It's all about you!" That's not only a lie, it's actually a bit despicable. Wonder Woman was a leader who brought people together. She led by example. She didn't demand respect or admiration. She acted with honor and admirably. Captain Marvel was about being all she could be. I know who I'd rather hang out with.
That's largely true of the DC triumvirate: Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman. They aren't just heroes. They are icons.
It's a very different approach from Marvel, who always strove to emphasize their heroes' humanity. I've often said it's the difference between Mythology (DC) and Shakespeare (Marvel). They are both great in their own way, but they are very different in their approach.
Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman are Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman. That is who they see in their psyche. It is their "isness." Clark Kent, Bruce Wayne, and Diana Prince ... those are the masks. The super hero costume isn't the disguise. The civilian clothes are the disguise.
Marvel heroes are completely opposite. Spider-Man is Peter Parker. Daredevil is Matt Murdock. The Hulk is Bruce Banner. Their super-hero identities are the disguise. Marvel had a few heroes who veered toward the iconic approach (the Fantastic Four), but even there, it was their normal everyday problems that made them endearing, not their super powers.
This is why when there’s talk of this female hero or that female hero and how it would make a great movie, I have to disagree. It might be a GOOD movie but because WW is who she is not to mention the cast as a stand-alone movie nothing else will stand the test of time.
This is why when there’s talk of this female hero or that female hero and how it would make a great movie, I have to disagree. It might be a GOOD movie but because WW is who she is not to mention the cast as a stand-alone movie nothing else will stand the test of time.
It all comes down to the script. The studio could have made a great CAPTAIN MARVEL movie. But they didn't. I doubt it all comes down to any one particular reason. Probably a combination of many things. But in the end, it was a thoroughly bland live-action cartoon.
It wasn't a bad movie. I didn't hate it. It was just mediocre. I saw it once in the theater. Haven't seen it since and have no particular desire to do so.
It all comes down to the script. The studio could have made a great CAPTAIN MARVEL movie. But they didn't. I doubt it all comes down to any one particular reason. Probably a combination of many things. But in the end, it was a thoroughly bland live-action cartoon.
It wasn't a bad movie. I didn't hate it. It was just mediocre. I saw it once in the theater. Haven't seen it since and have no particular desire to do so.
Script has a lot to do with it too buts let’s face it when the average moviegoer thinks female super hero WW pops into their head first. It was okay as you said I don’t see myself buying it to be sure.
Script has a lot to do with it too buts let’s face it when the average moviegoer thinks female super hero WW pops into their head first.
Sure. But the same was largely true of IRON MAN. Before that movie, only comic book nerds could tell you who Iron Man was. Ask an average movie goer, and the response most likely would have been either, "Dude! I love Ozzy!" or "Isn't that a cooking show?"
But Iron Man had a great script with a director who was passionate about the movie. Now Iron Man is a household name.
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Why Captain Marvel failed and Wonder Woman didn’t.
I doubt it all comes down to any one particular reason. Probably a combination of many things. But in the end, it was a thoroughly bland live-action cartoon. 