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taking a date to this movie when it came out
and years later renting and watching this with a date
more years later watching this on Netflix...
ALL were guarantees of getting laid
that's really the only redeeming quality for men to watch this
same with Pretty Woman
LOL. There is a cute movie where the guy uses the dance itself, to get the girl. Said it worked everytime. I hate it when I remember something like that but not the name of the movie or anything else about it!
It's been years since I've seen Dirty Dancing, but here's my perspective, from what I can recall (apologies of some of my memories are inaccurate, I'm gettin' old, ya know):
They were caught up in the moment. Yes, a lot was going on, but both characters were experiencing a LOT of inner turmoil and angst. For Johnny, the fact that he was so upset over Penny could in itself have driven him to want to be comforted; for Baby, well...she was what, 17? Young, caught up in her first love. I think it was all rather easily explainable.
I don't recall him ever telling Baby's dad that he was the reason Penny was pregnant. If I remember, he said that he was responsible for her...but he never admitted to being the father.
Yes, true. Johnny did want the approval of Baby's father, because he admired and respected a man who was in such a hallowed profession (physician). Johnny was constantly putting himself down internally though, and he inwardly believed that he would never measure up to such a high standard.
Again, he never lied. He didn't attempt to clear up the confusion over what Baby's father thought of him, but (imo) I think the instigating factor was that he expected her father to have that opinion of him anyway, because he held such a low opinion of himself.
And again...it's what he expected. He didn't try to clear up the truth with explanations because - as I see it - he probably felt that any explanation would go unheeded anyway...but more importantly, he was expecting that response, and he got it. In a sort of strange psychological way, he almost wanted to get that response from her father, as it verified Johnny's inner belief that he really was no good, not worthy of anything. Personally I found this to be a rather critical part of the movie, pointing out how good we humans are at judging others based upon their looks, vocation, or other reasons, and being blinded by that to not see the true person inside.
And again...I think Baby doesn't really try because she already knows that her father won't believe anything she tells him, particularly after she asked him for money but didn't disclose why, and realizes that she has, for the first time in her life, lied to her father and broken that trust. That alone crushes her.
Many many things...the time period takes many older generations back to the 60s; the wonderful throwback music, the clothing, the way people acted and spoke to each other. The story of a teen's first love; the story of a hardluck character who could never see his own self as good...someone who has struggled for years over it, until that one person comes into his life to show him that he is good, he is worthy, he is just as admirable as anyone around him.
Dirty Dancing is a classic.
After the Dad says who is responsible Johnny said "I am". This alone would lead the Dad to believe he got her pregnant since he was asking this while about to fix the abortion problem. There is no way Johnny could have thought he was answering another question. The Dad sees a woman who just got an abortion and said "Who is responsible". What else could Johnny thought he have meant?
If they wrote is so that Johnny was drunk or something while admitting it, then maybe I would believe it, but he was in full possession of your faculties, and new exactly what was going on around him. So there is no believable way he could have mistakened that question for something else I feel.
But yes, I shouldn't have said that Johnny lied, I explained it badly. What I meant was is that Johnny didn't bother to tell the truth and clear up the confusion. I understand that Johnny feels bad about himself to the point he doesn't feel like standing up for himself, but he doesn't act that way. He actually acts like he is actually clueless in the hole he is digging himself into.
Maybe it was the actor's performance and it was not intentional, but he came off as clueless much more than he did ashamed. So my perception of his character went to clueless more so than ashamed.
But I could watch the movie again and try to see it from the perception of him having a lower opinion of himself.
After the Dad says who is responsible Johnny said "I am". This alone would lead the Dad to believe he got her pregnant since he was asking this while about to fix the abortion problem. There is no way Johnny could have thought he was answering another question. The Dad sees a woman who just got an abortion and said "Who is responsible". What else could Johnny thought he have meant?
If they wrote is so that Johnny was drunk or something while admitting it, then maybe I would believe it, but he was in full possession of your faculties, and new exactly what was going on around him. So there is no believable way he could have mistakened that question for something else I feel.
But yes, I shouldn't have said that Johnny lied, I explained it badly. What I meant was is that Johnny didn't bother to tell the truth and clear up the confusion. I understand that Johnny feels bad about himself to the point he doesn't feel like standing up for himself, but he doesn't act that way. He actually acts like he is actually clueless in the hole he is digging himself into.
Maybe it was the actor's performance and it was not intentional, but he came off as clueless much more than he did ashamed. So my perception of his character went to clueless more so than ashamed.
But I could watch the movie again and try to see it from the perception of him having a lower opinion of himself.
He was upset about Penny but also intimidated by the doctor. There are a lot of nuances about social class in this movie that, if you didn’t grow up around it, you won’t understand.
It would be easy for the doc to mean one thing and Johnny mean another, in the heat of the moment.
I viewed it as “Responsible for...” in terms of his childhood friend who he looked out for.
People get emotionally attached to movies for reasons that have nothing to do with how the movie is made. You seem to get tripped up by this concept when asking “What’s so great about...?”
Nothing is inherently great about Dirty Dancing... or about any other movie ever made!
Some people like Dirty Dancing. Others don't. Some films push the buttons of a lot of people. Others are enjoyed only by a comparatively small number of people. That's the nature of subjectivity!
Why must you fixate on this idea that just because you don't like a popular film, that you're either missing something, or everyone else is wrong? I don't care for Dirty Dancing either, but I'm not baffled that others do. They just have different tastes than I.
Sheesh!
I don't disagree, but I will say that these threads wind up being interesting anyways because people pipe up with perspectives and ideas that I hadn't considered or noticed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AhRainess
When I watched the movie back then, I always thought how much Johnny (Patrick Swayze) looked like he didn't really like Baby (Jennifer Grey). I saw it in his eyes and body language. Turns out that they really didn't get along. Ha! Guess they weren't that great in acting, or I'm just really good at reading body language.
Same here. I was an adult when I first saw it, and even though I understand the "bad boy" attraction, I thought Swayze's character was just a jerk. I didn't see the chemistry. I don't mind the movie, but I'm definitely not in the "OMG GREATEST ROMANCE FILM OF ALL TIME" camp.
And while I acknowledge that a certain suspension of disbelief is necessary, I will always feel eye-rolly at the notion that you can go from zero to quasi-professional dancer in a matter of months (yes, this is the basis of most dance flicks, and yes, I feel the same).
Yeah I could try to watch it again and see if I see it from that perspective, that Johnny misread the situation with Jake.
Some have said that the reason why Johnny says he is responsible, cause he didn't want Jake to find out that Penny slept with Robbie, and that that would get her fired. But I mean, how would Jake find out really? If Jake asked who is responsible, and Johnny felt like he didn't want to get her in trouble, all Johnny would have to do is just not say anything. Then Jake would not know who Penny slept with and just assume it could have been anybody.
He wouldn't have jumped to the conclusion that it was someone she worked with, and go and tell Penny's boss about it likely.
Yeah I could try to watch it again and see if I see it from that perspective, that Johnny misread the situation with Jake.
Some have said that the reason why Johnny says he is responsible, cause he didn't want Jake to find out that Penny slept with Robbie, and that that would get her fired. But I mean, how would Jake find out really? If Jake asked who is responsible, and Johnny felt like he didn't want to get her in trouble, all Johnny would have to do is just not say anything. Then Jake would not know who Penny slept with and just assume it could have been anybody.
He wouldn't have jumped to the conclusion that it was someone she worked with, and go and tell Penny's boss about it likely.
IDK who said that, but it wasn't in this thread. That isn't why he said that. We have explained that Johnny was responsible for her in other ways and that is the question he thought he was answering.
If we were around my mother's hospital bed and a Dr. asked who is responsible for her care? I would say ME. That would not mean I was responsible for her CONDITION.
Johnny was her BEST FRIEND, her dance partner, her work partner, her only 'person' in the world. Who else would take care of her? No one. Also, he was the head of the department and therefore responsible for all his employees.
Robbie is also an employee. Sleeping with him would not get her fired. Sleeping with guests does that, which was Johnny's predicament with Baby. He got away with it with the other women because they were paying him. They weren't going to run and tell on themselves.
Penny's risk of being fired had to do with inability to keep up her work obligations. She can't dance pregnant. She can't dance during recovery from abortion....that is the center of the whole reason Baby involved herself. Found her crying in the kitchen, and then insisted on knowing what was going on. The cousin told her. Johnny was like ****! But the cousin kept on, and then Baby was persistent. She wants to save the world, and she stared with Penny.
Oh okay, I see. I asked my two friends who liked the movie, and they said that Johnny confessed to being the father on purpose so she wouldn't get fired. I thought someone on here said that too maybe, but I was wrong, my mistake.
But if someone asked if I was responsible for my friend who was pregnant, I and just had the abortion, I would definitely clarify what they mean by 'responsible', before answering such a question at that time.
But how come Johnny didn't figure out later that he may have mislead Jake, and put it together? Also, if Baby wanted her Dad's approval of Johnny so much couldn't she just tell the dad, even if he says he doesn't want to hear it and just tell him anyway? I mean it's not like he's covering her mouth to stop her.
Oh okay, I see. I asked my two friends who liked the movie, and they said that Johnny confessed to being the father on purpose so she wouldn't get fired. I thought someone on here said that too maybe, but I was wrong, my mistake.
But if someone asked if I was responsible for my friend who was pregnant, I and just had the abortion, I would definitely clarify what they mean by 'responsible', before answering such a question at that time.
But how come Johnny didn't figure out later that he may have mislead Jake, and put it together? Also, if Baby wanted her Dad's approval of Johnny so much couldn't she just tell the dad, even if he says he doesn't want to hear it and just tell him anyway? I mean it's not like he's covering her mouth to stop her.
Baby had just been outed as a LIAR. He doesn't believe a word that comes out of her mouth anymore. He stops speaking to her at all. Puts all his attention on the other daughter. Even closer to the end when she says Daddy I need you to believe me about something. He said 'I'm sorry, Baby, I can't'.
Quote:
But if someone asked if I was responsible for my friend who was pregnant, I and just had the abortion, I would definitely clarify what they mean by 'responsible', before answering such a question at that time.
Well, you just blew up part of the plot with this. They couldn't do that because it wouldn't service the plot! There are a lot of things in movies I am like that is stupid, but when I can tell it services the plot, I am like ok whatever.
However, this is not even plot device. Penny FORBADE him or Baby or the cousin (the only 3 people who knew) from telling.
You want Johnny to save himself by going back on his word? That more than ruins that part of the plot, that ruins his entire character, the love story, everything. Baby is with him because he IS good, he IS worthy, and she works for HIM to see that. She couldn't help a person who doesn't honor their word, to save themselves, as a good person!
If Baby had said 'Daddy, it wasn't Johnny', IF he would hear her at all, which he made plain he would NOT, he would have asked 'then who was it'? Then she'd have to say 'I can't tell you that, you have to trust me'.
The exact thing she said when she couldn't tell him what the money was for, and it turned out to be an abortion, so the whole 'You have to trust me' thing would not work, and she COULD NOT say Robbie, because she had given HER word on that AND while she might have been willing to break her word, she threatened Robbie with that, saying 'I am going to get you FIRED', Robbie replied that telling would do no good. He'd deny it and say that Penny was a lying piece of trash.
Okay thanks. But when you say Penny forbade them, what power does Penny have over them? I think there is more at steak hear, in their own mess to clear up besides Penny's problem here. What power does Penny have over them?
Even if they made Penny a promise, this promise is just digging everyone into a bigger hole, and it's worth breaking the promise, cause Penny isn't thinking clearly.
But let's say Robbie denies it. So what? It's still better than "I can't tell you". Is Baby worried that Penny will be fired, if Robbie denies it? I mean I'm just not seeing what the big consequence is, as to why Baby can't tell the truth?
Last edited by ironpony; 08-30-2018 at 07:00 PM..
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