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Snuffybear brings up another point relevant to the redshirting debate--the early elementary grades aren't like they were even 20-30 years ago. By most accounts, kindergarten is even much more intense than it used to be. The expectations are higher--my friends who teach K/1/2 and my friends/family with elementary kids, unanimously agree that K today is more like 1st grade in the 80s (when most of us were that age). I guess that begs the question, has this happened because the average age of K'ers is increasing, or are more people holding their kids back because of the rising expectations (or is it something else entirely)?
Tahiti, I agree 100% with you. I just don't understand why in NJ, parents are so adamant on holding their child back, even when they make the date. Meanwhile, 25 miles away (in NY where the cut off is much later), parents don't do that. You don't see this much discussion about holding back or parents worrying their child being the youngest.
I moved from NY to NJ a year ago and is actually 'disgusted' by this practice. However, we can only agree to disagree with the others.
In my child's class (our district has a later cutoff), there are Sept and Oct birthdays (NOT a year earlier but the year of the Kindergarten cutoff age). It all depends on the child.
Tahiti, I agree 100% with you. I just don't understand why in NJ, parents are so adamant on holding their child back, even when they make the date. Meanwhile, 25 miles away (in NY where the cut off is much later), parents don't do that. You don't see this much discussion about holding back or parents worrying their child being the youngest.
I'm moved from NY to NJ a year ago and is actually 'disgusted' by this practice. However, we can only agree to disagree with the others.
In my child's class (our district has a later cutoff), there are Sept and Oct birthdays (NOT a year earlier but the year of the Kindergarten cutoff age). It all depends on the child.
EXACTLY! There are so many things that determine a child's readiness other than a date on a calendar: some kids are early readers, some are good at math (and even if they aren't doesn't mean they are not "ready"), kids with older siblings may be more socially adept than their "only" peers. if your kid seems ready and meets the date, by all means, send them!
It's funny, I don't remember tiny kids I went to school with, but I certainly remember the kids who were huge for their age, and it was very awkward for them. Being the largest in your class (which can happen with redshirting) isn't always beneficial either.
1) It IS a vicious cycle but it is driven by factors way outside of a parent's control, such as the pressures of standardized testing; and the fact that large class sizes, inclusion classes, and administrative pressures result in a less-than-ideal classroom setting. Parents can only control their own kid and set their own child up for the best possible chance of success and being ready for learning at school... they cannot control the system. There is a reason why starting late IS allowed (but starting early usually isn't) and it is recommended by the professionals that advise state Depts of Education.
2) Personally I'd rather my child be in a class full of mature kids really to learn, than with a bunch of rambunctious kids that aren't ready for school. Parents know their own kids; and they are making the best bet they can. That includes the OP here...the only thing we are questioning is the fact that leaping AHEAD a grade is rare these days and the OP seemed unaware she will be MUCH younger; the OP child's birthday is actually a great one for the class she falls right into.
3) Tahiti - it is not an endless slippery slope -- people are not sending 8yo's to Kindergarten and it DOES stop with the summer birthdays (the only kids I've heard of starting a year later with *spring* birthdays have definite issues. Also, have some compassion for those kids! This is not an easy decision for their parents - they likely lost a lot of sleep over it - nor is it easy for the kids. Back to summer/early fall bday kids --- they ARE in a grey area and they ARE younger than most of their classmates. It is OFTEN recommended by professionals that those parents be sure their kids are ready, due to the demands of school, and when in doubt, be safe and give the "gift of time". This does affect boys more, because it has been documented that boys' maturity for school is usually 6mos behind girls. So a boy with a June birthday may be approx. same developmental level as girl with December birthday.
The kids with summer birthdays never turn the next age during a school year. If they go in Sept at, say, age 7 for 1st grade, the other kids all turn 7 shortly thereafter. So they are barely older than their classmates -- and this may be prefarable for SOME kids due to developmental age, personality, birth order, confidence, special needs (ie, there are many kids that may not qualify for IEP yet have some needs that warrant starting school later - they may be transparent to YOU, tahiti, but they may be of concern to the family or pediatrician). So stop judging what you don't know!
Last edited by snuffybear; 05-21-2012 at 11:00 AM..
1) It IS a vicious cycle but it is driven by factors way outside of a parent's control, such as the pressures of standardized testing; and the fact that large class sizes, inclusion classes, and administrative pressures result in a less-than-ideal classroom setting. Parents can only control their own kid and set their own child up for the best possible chance of success and being ready for learning at school... they cannot control the system. There is a reason why starting late IS allowed (but starting early usually isn't) and it is recommended by the professionals that advise state Depts of Education.
2) Personally I'd rather my child be in a class full of mature kids really to learn, than with a bunch of rambunctious kids that aren't ready for school. Parents know their own kids; and they are making the best bet they can. That includes the OP here...the only thing we are questioning is the fact that leaping AHEAD a grade is rare these days and the OP seemed unaware she will be MUCH younger; the OP child's birthday is actually a great one for the class she falls right into.
3) Tahiti - it is not an endless slippery slope -- people are not sending 8yo's to Kindergarten and it DOES stop with the summer birthdays (the only kids I've heard of starting a year later with *spring* birthdays have definite issues. Also, have some compassion for those kids! This is not an easy decision for their parents - they likely lost a lot of sleep over it - nor is it easy for the kids. Back to summer/early fall bday kids --- they ARE in a grey area and they ARE younger than most of their classmates. It is OFTEN recommended by professionals that those parents be sure their kids are ready, due to the demands of school, and when in doubt, be safe and give the "gift of time". This does affect boys more, because it has been documented that boys' maturity for school is usually 6mos behind girls. So a boy with a June birthday may be approx. same developmental level as girl with December birthday.
The kids with summer birthdays never turn the next age during a school year. If they go in Sept at, say, age 7 for 1st grade, the other kids all turn 7 shortly thereafter. So they are barely older than their classmates -- and this may be prefarable for SOME kids due to developmental age, personality, birth order, confidence, special needs (ie, there are many kids that may not qualify for IEP yet have some needs that warrant starting school later - they may be transparent to YOU, tahiti, but they may be of concern to the family or pediatrician). So stop judging what you don't know!
Aren't you judging the OP for wanting to push their child ahead? lol
Don't you understand though that if *everyone* holds back their summer/fall kids it just puts pressure on the kids who NOW are the youngest? And the parents of spring b'days are now faced with the decision of whether their kids should be the youngest? Why do you think there's this magical few months where this issue disappears? You yourself stated the OP's child would be with children 1.5 years older, which means children born in May. That's not summer or fall.
Also, for the hundredth time (to reference your last paragraph), I'm NOT saying to send your kid regardless of ANY circumstance and I don't know why you keep inferring I am. I mentioned my ANECDOTAL evidence..I don't know how I can more clearly explain the people I know held their kids back SOLELY so they could be the best at sports or the oldest. I don't imagine these reason are unique.
No, we think the OP, coming from Indiana, doesn't understand the situation in NJ.
Also, the curriculum IS more challenging and K is often regarded as the "new first grade". Kids DO have to be prepared and if that means holding back a SUMMER or EARLY FALL (ie Sept) birthday because they are developmentanlly not ready (knowing that experts say boys are often 6mos behind girls in developmental readiness for school, which is why boys are more commonly held back).
You're right, someone has to be the youngest. But since the May and earlier birthdays DO turn the next age during the school year, and are ONLY a few months older, it makes sense. And the spring birthdays are not usually the youngest because some parents do deem their children ready for school at just-turned-5. So the May birthday child is well within the mix and indeed several months older than a few kids.
It is an individual decision and a private one. Your anecodotal observations may be incomplete. Those kids may have been in speech therapy, OT, had trouble with other things in early childhood. None of your business.
I was born on September 13, 1998 [24 weeks], but my DUE DATE was January 25, 2000. As a result, I am currently in Grade 9 rather than Grade 10. If my DUE DATE was before October 1, 1998, I'd be in Grade 10. For some reason, the school system marked me as born on January 25, 2000, but I'm a ninth grader, not an eighth grader.
As for your daughter [born November], I would have her miss a whole year of kindergarten. You wouldn't want her to be younger than everyone else [even though you can call me a JANUARY '00 9th grader, as 9-13-1998 was 24 WEEKS].
Think about it this way: It's better to hold daughter Marina Kim who will be 12 years old on December 25 back in 5th grade if you want to play catch up with her development, rather than having her in 6th grade. It's not like having her repeat 5th grade, it's that she will be better prepared for middle school the next year [she will be 13 in the middle of sixth grade, which doesn't matter to me; I'd rather have her on the older end than the younger end].
If daughter Marina Kim who will be 12 on December 25 is enrolled in 5th grade, she will have a chance to "play catch up" in the transition to junior high. It's not like she's held back for 2 years, it's like playing catch up with transitioning to middle school.
But, if daughter Maria Vetter will be 14 years old on January 28, I wouldn't have her be in 8th grade. I would have her in 9th grade, as she's going to be 14 years old anyway. In this case, I would rather have Maria Vetter younger than the 9th graders.
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