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By your logic, Obama and Bush were the best preznents because they spent (Wasted) the most money. Since $$$ = rankings in this liberal ranking systems. It's the same with universities. Harvahd has the most $$$ and the most well connected grads. It's not like their teaching quality is a billion times better than a state school.
Ever realize that students in NJ probably do better in certain districts because they are kids from wealthy families that are better off? It's not like the teachers deserve any credit. Out of all the teachers I've can remember, only a handful were exceptional. Hats off to them, but the rest are guzzlers.
Awful logic.
First, the best colleges are the best because they tend to accept the smartest students AND yes their faculty IS also top notch. The teaching quality IS often better than most other schools.
I don't know why some people fight the school rankings so hard. I think it's just hard for some to admit that NJ is actually good at SOMETHING. That is schools, and this is undeniable. NJ has unquestionably great schools. We just do, there's no denying it or trying to somehow rationalize it for anything other than it is.
I think generally, wealthier areas tend to have better schools and better performing students, this is not a NJ thing. But state education systems are ranked, based on many factors, and the fact is that NJ always comes out close to the top. This isn't to say other states don't have districts with great schools also, because they do.
"It's not like the teachers deserve any credit." This is an understatement if I've ever seen one. Jesus. My high school was ranked #13 in the state of NJ when I graduated and I had some truly phenomenal teachers. It's just wrong to say that teachers don't have anything to do with rankings or school performance or that they're just generally not good and don't deserve credit. I also had a few pretty terrible teachers but for the most part my teachers were awesome and some have left an impact on me through today.
We do it because NJ residents on average earn a lot more money than people do where you live. The median household income in GA is $51,244. In NJ it's $72,222. Also, the person you looked up with a nearly $20k tax bill is living in a house worth somewhere between $750k and $1 million in market value. Which means his annual household income is likely measured in the 100s of thousands of dollars, not 10s of thousands. So affordability is a relative concept. That said, I assure you that even though NJ has the highest property taxes in the country, most of its residents aren't living in homes assessed high enough to be paying $20k a year.
Dream on, Craig-D. FYI, the person in New Jersey's house is valued at $550,000, which is about half of the value of my house, at $250,000. Her tax, $19,000+, and mine, $2,400. We are close to the same age and have children who went to school, I presume, in these places. I know nothing about her, but I know my kids had a fine public education, and we also had a 6 figure income, and all public services.
Well, I was very happy to provide my investing guide to you, but the antagonistic people in this thread shouldn't expect me to extend that courtesy to them. Hopefully you have already benefitted from my how-to primer.
seriously? what a child. i would always give financial advice if someone asked me no matter what they have said to me in the past. maybe you can offer it to people that didnt vote for trump. i know that you are still having a major internal hissy fit over the trump win.
btw, i actually didnt vote for trump so include me on the wisdom.
First, the best colleges are the best because they tend to accept the smartest students AND yes their faculty IS also top notch. The teaching quality IS often better than most other schools.
I don't know why some people fight the school rankings so hard. I think it's just hard for some to admit that NJ is actually good at SOMETHING. That is schools, and this is undeniable. NJ has unquestionably great schools. We just do, there's no denying it or trying to somehow rationalize it for anything other than it is.
I think generally, wealthier areas tend to have better schools and better performing students, this is not a NJ thing. But state education systems are ranked, based on many factors, and the fact is that NJ always comes out close to the top. This isn't to say other states don't have districts with great schools also, because they do.
"It's not like the teachers deserve any credit." This is an understatement if I've ever seen one. Jesus. My high school was ranked #13 in the state of NJ when I graduated and I had some truly phenomenal teachers. It's just wrong to say that teachers don't have anything to do with rankings or school performance or that they're just generally not good and don't deserve credit. I also had a few pretty terrible teachers but for the most part my teachers were awesome and some have left an impact on me through today.
The only reason harvahd has the most billionaires or whatever is because they only accept the students with the absolute best credentials (and "diversity" credentials) who obviously will do better in their careers.
However, professors are hired mainly because of research and papers published aka grant money, not teaching ability. Teaching is a side objective, an annoyance, for them at the university level. You won't believe me, but based on my experience at a higher ranked (cue liberals saying "no way lol u uneducated bigot") and many opinions and opinions of relatives of mine who went to top 10/15s depending on how the rankings have changed since then (admissions much harder) said basically the same. It's just teaching yourself for the most part. On average better than states school, but not significantly so. And there's no way teaching from rank 10 to 30 or even 50 is significant. It's better to go somewhere like Penn state or rutgers for alumni connections than a 30-50 rank or whatever.
Fight rankings because they are a total scam to get tax $$$, that's why. NJ has "good" schools" but that doesn't justify the absurd taxes. Well Mass topped that list and they also have high incomes. Also NJ is better at a lot of stuff than just schools...
I can't make an objective statement, but by experience 5% of NJ teachers were exceptional, 75% were average, and 20% were atrocious. Whenever test scores are bad, teachers say "blame the parents!". So when test scores ARE good, they should also say "blame the parents!"
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{Sigh} You obviously didn't review the rankings. They are not based on spending. Louisiana spends a healthy $11,267 per student, which is exactly midpack nationwide. Yet it comes in at a ranking of 43rd right below TX, so it's schools are worse than those of Texas despite spending a lot more.
yea what are they based on? it justs lists hs graduation, per pupil spending, and preschools. Texas only has 5% lower HS graduation rate. You seriously want people to spend 10k a year to boost the graduation rate by that little?
I never said they were the highest tax rates in the entire state TX, nor was I attempting to prove as such. But they are higher than average for the state. The point being made was that better schools typically mean higher taxes. And if you read through the string of posts, you'll note the discussion was limited to the suburbs of North Dallas.
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Originally Posted by Craig-D
You are attempting to cherry pick the few schools in TX that may fit your narrative. Those Texas towns with higher performing schools come with the states's highest taxes - proving once and for all that you cannot have low taxes and high education. Add those schools are relative to other Texas schools. They'd be average at best in NJ. If you do an apples to apple's comparison of each state's top schools, you'd find that Texas' best is nowhere near as good as NJ's best. The fact is, what Texas spends per student is embarrassing. And the results of that policy don't lie.
You also state that total tax burden is what you are arguing, not just property taxes. But then TX's dirty little secret is revealed - it levies no income tax because it instead sucks the federal treasury dry far more than states with income taxes that self-fund like NJ.
Anyway, I said before that there is no strong correlation, at least in Texas, between spending per pupil and results. If you want to limit it to DFW, okay, but they are all around the same range, with DISD even spending more than many better districts surrounding it.
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Originally Posted by Craig-D
I did read the methodology, did you? You're confusing two different subcategories tha tmade up teh overall ranking. That 41st rank refers to the subcategory of the residents of Texas reliance on federal aid. The TX government itself is ranked 24th most dependent on Federal aid.
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Originally Posted by Craig-D
You are attempting to cherry pick the few schools in TX that may fit your narrative. Those Texas towns with higher performing schools come with the states's highest taxes - proving once and for all that you cannot have low taxes and high education. Add those schools are relative to other Texas schools. They'd be average at best in NJ. If you do an apples to apple's comparison of each state's top schools, you'd find that Texas' best is nowhere near as good as NJ's best. The fact is, what Texas spends per student is embarrassing. And the results of that policy don't lie.
You also state that total tax burden is what you are arguing, not just property taxes. But then TX's dirty little secret is revealed - it levies no income tax because it instead sucks the federal treasury dry far more than states with income taxes that self-fund like NJ.
Sorry, apparently I misinterpreted. Anyhow, perhaps the state takes more from the federal government but you have to remember where the federal government get its money from in the first place. If the federal government didn't collect any revenue from member states (not to say it should, because that is a host of other issues) its members, Texas included, could just get the funds directly from its residents without its residents actually pay more in taxes (just changing what level of government the money flows to). Much less for a few handful of states, particularly New Jersey, which unfortunately gets so little from the federal government (much less than it puts in).
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Originally Posted by Craig-D
This debate started when a poster suggested that high taxes are a waste, to which I responded that when they fund education they are not. He held out Texas is an example of a state with low taxes that has schools as good as NJ's, in an attempt to prove that low taxes can produce top schools. He stated the suburbs of north Dallas as an example. The only problems with that premise being that those north Dallas suburbs neither have low taxes, nor do they have schools that would rank any better than average if they were in NJ.
Someone held out Texas as a state where people are moving, nothing about education. You then brought education into the conversation.
I agree but many won't and don't. Some people here just love to hate NJ and can't see anything good about it.
People love to hate NJ...I think because because of TV perception for outsiders and taxes/financial reasons for people that actually live here. I forget where I read the listings, but for quality of life ratings of states NJ did exceptionally well in terms of physical health, safety, and social well being. The problem was financial ratings which were terrible.
People love to hate NJ...I think because because of TV perception for outsiders and taxes/financial reasons for people that actually live here. I forget where I read the listings, but for quality of life ratings of states NJ did exceptionally well in terms of physical health, safety, and social well being. The problem was financial ratings which were terrible.
The usual "NJ hate" threads (this isn't one of them btw but there is a new one in the forum) always bring so many out of the woodwork just to bash. It's bizarre.
lol Dude I read it in context. You made it a completely separate sentence, then said the kids in those 26 are getting top notch educations and probably don't care about lower overall graduation rates. Sounds to me like a sort of comparison especially because you said NJ has 10.
Anyway, my point in saying anything in the first place was TX is irrelevant here. Of all states people from NJ flee to, TX is not even the most common one. Why waste so much time talking about TX?
I'm sure the TX forums would love to hear people talk it up.
I'm glad someone else has noticed his circular reasoning. One has to wonder if he actually lives in TX, or has ever lived there. If he lives in NJ with no plans to leave in the near future, then this who debate becomes comically ironic.
The fact is NJ is the 4th smallest state by land area, yet it is the 12 most populous and still growing. It's citizens are among the wealthiest and best educated in the country. How is all that possible for such a miserable, unaffordable place?
The usual "NJ hate" threads (this isn't one of them btw but there is a new one in the forum) always bring so many out of the woodwork just to bash. It's bizarre.
It can also be the blunt NJ attitude whereas other people bottle up their complaints...
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