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Except we do. All the research shows that millennials are still moving to JC and Hoboken.
"The state’s top Millennial destinations won’t come as a surprise to many: Hoboken is the state’s Millennial capital, with 45 percent of the Mile Square City’s population falling fully in the 22-34-year-old age group. Neighboring Jersey City is second, as Millennials make up 28 percent of its population." https://jerseydigs.com/millennials-s...ng-new-jersey/
Those places, yeah. But I said Hoboken-like, so what about places like Cranford or Garwood? These types of towns are turning into mini-cities with all the development we don't need. Every available lot gets apartments now. Developers are trying to attract Millennials by building in other towns - because look! They like living in these types of apartments in Hoboken, why not here? There's also a train here! - while also trying to force court-mandated AH obligations on these same towns that are already at or over capacity, and are still plagued by NJ Transit issues and other infrastructure issues like the rest of the state. Again, don't know what anyone thinks is going to happen when we keep building but don't solve other problems. We're only creating more problems and adding even more people.
Your first link says "New Jersey still has a net out-migration of Millennials." And "[T]he study did reveal a significant difference in Millennial out-migration among college-age adults 18-22 years old. That subgroup leaving the state more than doubled between 2004 and 2016, up to 11.6 percent," with costs of housing and infrastructure and transportation issues being the biggest problems. The article shows Millennials are leaving NJ, yet developers are saying they want to live in apartments in urban-like towns, that's how they're selling overdevelopment in places that AREN'T Hoboken or JC - if they're not leaving the state because COL and old infrastructure.
Most are probably renting because they can't afford to buy. People who grew up in my town can barely afford to buy their own homes here now. It's probably why so many leave, they rent until they want kids, have kids, and move south when the kids are young, where they can actually afford a house and aren't stuck in some small urban apartment. Just as people are being priced out of the city, they're being priced out of NJ. Because as they leave one expensive place for another, demand and popularity in that other place grows and it also gets more expensive - then there's also NJ's own problems leading to high taxes and COL.
Those places, yeah. But I said Hoboken-like, so what about places like Cranford or Garwood? These types of towns are turning into mini-cities with all the development we don't need. Every available lot gets apartments now. Developers are trying to attract Millennials by building in other towns - because look! They like living in these types of apartments in Hoboken, why not here? There's also a train here! - while also trying to force court-mandated AH obligations on these same towns that are already at or over capacity, and are still plagued by NJ Transit issues and other infrastructure issues like the rest of the state. Again, don't know what anyone thinks is going to happen when we keep building but don't solve other problems. We're only creating more problems and adding even more people.
Your first link says "New Jersey still has a net out-migration of Millennials." And "[T]he study did reveal a significant difference in Millennial out-migration among college-age adults 18-22 years old. That subgroup leaving the state more than doubled between 2004 and 2016, up to 11.6 percent," with costs of housing and infrastructure and transportation issues being the biggest problems. The article shows Millennials are leaving NJ, yet developers are saying they want to live in apartments in urban-like towns, that's how they're selling overdevelopment in places that AREN'T Hoboken or JC - if they're not leaving the state because COL and old infrastructure.
Most are probably renting because they can't afford to buy. People who grew up in my town can barely afford to buy their own homes here now. It's probably why so many leave, they rent until they want kids, have kids, and move south when the kids are young, where they can actually afford a house and aren't stuck in some small urban apartment. Just as people are being priced out of the city, they're being priced out of NJ. Because as they leave one expensive place for another, demand and popularity in that other place grows and it also gets more expensive - then there's also NJ's own problems leading to high taxes and COL.
No. Not Cranford. They are not like Hudson county cities, Harrison, or Newark. They're still suburban.
Also, what's your alternative? Just building nothing? One major reason housing is unaffordable is supply. Supply and demand is a very simple topic. Overbuilding is a great way to decrease housing costs. As the population grows, would you prefer that no housing gets built? I'm sorry you want your nice suburbs, but that era is over. There is simply not enough housing. You might not be happy with it. But it's a fact. There is not enough supply of housing, as nearly every major American city is not building enough to keep up with population demand. Look at cities like SF, LA and right here in NYC. SF and LA refuse to build. Meanwhile, NYC is building. And prices are leveling off there.
Clearly millennials are drawn to JC and Hoboken. We like them for being urban. You say "Millennials are leaving NJ, yet developers are saying they want to live in apartments in urban-like towns." Do you see the disconnect in logic there? There isn't enough of the housing stock or city layout that millennials like. So we leave. If there was enough supply of apartments in cities with walkable downtown, there would be environments that millennials like. And with enough supply, costs would be lower. And we need to stop subsidizing car travel so much. Taxes pay for roads and subsidize driving for suburbanites. We should change that and fund public transit options far more. Also, it can't all be blamed on NJ though. The federal government is not helping with the Gateway project and the tunnels and bridges across the Hudson. If the federal government and the state of NJ worked harder together to make sure NJT was more reliable by funding public transit more than car infrastructure, and there were enough apartments to bring the supply up to match demand and lower housing costs, there's a chance for change.
I mean, you're making good points, but you're not putting any critical thinking into it...tbh. Supply and demand is very important. You gotta get over your suburban love and wanting your nice quiet suburb to stay that way. Also the state has to get over its car-reliance and stop subsidizing car traffic so much, and put that funding into NJT. And you're missing the connection between NJ being suburban and millennials leaving, except for Hudson County, which is the only urban part.
The biggest irony of this thread is that it is posted on a board whose very existence is dependent upon people asking questions about New Jersey before they move here. It doesn't really matter how many people move out at any given time, it matters how many people are moving in. Last I checked there were no shortage of people crashing the gates looking for "good-schools-walkable-downtowns-diversity-access-to-transit-ethnic-food-(insert additional attributes here)." The other head scratcher is all of the bellyaching. If you want to leave, then, leave? It's not as if anyone is forced to stay here.
No. Not Cranford. They are not like Hudson county cities, Harrison, or Newark. They're still suburban.
Also, what's your alternative? Just building nothing? One major reason housing is unaffordable is supply. Supply and demand is a very simple topic. Overbuilding is a great way to decrease housing costs. As the population grows, would you prefer that no housing gets built? I'm sorry you want your nice suburbs, but that era is over. There is simply not enough housing. You might not be happy with it. But it's a fact. There is not enough supply of housing, as nearly every major American city is not building enough to keep up with population demand. Look at cities like SF, LA and right here in NYC. SF and LA refuse to build. Meanwhile, NYC is building. And prices are leveling off there.
The suburb era is not over. It will never be over.
As millenials age and have kids, a large percentage will be moving to the suburbs for affordable housing and better schools - just like every generation has since after WW2. There might be more demand for train station towns and walkable downtowns, but once you start raising a family, the most important thing you have is time. Walking to the town center will become a distant memory after an hour plus commute, unless you are a few minutes from the town center.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jessemh431
Clearly millennials are drawn to JC and Hoboken. We like them for being urban. You say "Millennials are leaving NJ, yet developers are saying they want to live in apartments in urban-like towns." Do you see the disconnect in logic there? There isn't enough of the housing stock or city layout that millennials like. So we leave. If there was enough supply of apartments in cities with walkable downtown, there would be environments that millennials like. And with enough supply, costs would be lower. And we need to stop subsidizing car travel so much. Taxes pay for roads and subsidize driving for suburbanites. We should change that and fund public transit options far more. Also, it can't all be blamed on NJ though. The federal government is not helping with the Gateway project and the tunnels and bridges across the Hudson. If the federal government and the state of NJ worked harder together to make sure NJT was more reliable by funding public transit more than car infrastructure, and there were enough apartments to bring the supply up to match demand and lower housing costs, there's a chance for change.
I mean, you're making good points, but you're not putting any critical thinking into it...tbh. Supply and demand is very important. You gotta get over your suburban love and wanting your nice quiet suburb to stay that way. Also the state has to get over its car-reliance and stop subsidizing car traffic so much, and put that funding into NJT. And you're missing the connection between NJ being suburban and millennials leaving, except for Hudson County, which is the only urban part.
Your comments about car traffic are not well thought out. Every town in NJ has jobs and residential housing. There is a huge amount of point to point commuting without a regular pattern. This makes it impossible to string housing and jobs together with convenient mass transit. Most NJ mass transit is heading to and from NYC/Hoboken. Even if you are lucky enough to live and work on the same train line, the odds are that either your job or your residence (or both) will be too far (plus no side walks/light during the winter months) from the train station to consider walking on a regular basis.
The suburb era is not over. It will never be over.
As millenials age and have kids, a large percentage will be moving to the suburbs for affordable housing and better schools - just like every generation has since after WW2. There might be more demand for train station towns and walkable downtowns, but once you start raising a family, the most important thing you have is time. Walking to the town center will become a distant memory after an hour plus commute, unless you are a few minutes from the town center.
Your comments about car traffic are not well thought out. Every town in NJ has jobs and residential housing. There is a huge amount of point to point commuting without a regular pattern. This makes it impossible to string housing and jobs together with convenient mass transit. Most NJ mass transit is heading to and from NYC/Hoboken. Even if you are lucky enough to live and work on the same train line, the odds are that either your job or your residence (or both) will be too far (plus no side walks/light during the winter months) from the train station to consider walking on a regular basis.
As millennials have kids and move to the burbs, we're still not going super far away, unless we just can't afford anything in a more walkable suburb. And especially one with a train station. Again, it goes back to supply and demand. I'd be willing to bet that if any millennial with a child could afford a town like Montclair, Millburn, Summit, etc. they would take it over a town with no downtown and/or no train station. Also with time being the most important factor, being a short train ride from work would help with that also. Newark and Manhattan are massive employment centers. With better/more frequent train access to both, people could commute to work by train more easily instead of sitting in NJ's horrible traffic.
I don't think roads shouldn't be funded anymore. I just think there has to be more investment in public transit and to stop subsidizing car travel as much. With Newark becoming a bigger employment/entertainment/residential hub, it's easy to make train travel to Newark is simpler. How are you going to alleviate car traffic in Newark? Demolish old buildings and make streets wider? Expand 280? Obviously car traffic in other parts of the state that require car travel should be addressed. But where public transit can be utilized, we must invest in that properly before funding car travel so heavily.
Mind you, this isn't a problem just in NJ. It's an American problem. The entire country needs to shift away from this car-centric mentality that subsidizes auto travel so heavily.
Many don't want to buy the old, out of style housing stock that is being sold now in many of the suburbs. On top of that, many of these houses are in areas where there are no downtowns or much activity. People like the new apartments. It builds a sense of life in the area, provides tons of customers to the local businesses, more enjoyable to live in than some 40 year old house, and gives people the chance to use public transit without having to buy a house! We have seen what life was like for our parents in the deeper suburbs and many dont want the same. Maintaining the lawn shouldn't be the highlight of the day.
Many don't want to buy the old, out of style housing stock that is being sold now in many of the suburbs. On top of that, many of these houses are in areas where there are no downtowns or much activity. People like the new apartments. It builds a sense of life in the area, provides tons of customers to the local businesses, more enjoyable to live in than some 40 year old house, and gives people the chance to use public transit without having to buy a house! We have seen what life was like for our parents in the deeper suburbs and many dont want the same. Maintaining the lawn shouldn't be the highlight of the day.
Exactly. I know VERY FEW millennials who desire that type of neighborhood and lifestyle. However, for some looking to buy, it's the sad reality that it's all they can afford. Again, supply and demand. Why would so many of the wealthy towns with downtowns and train stations be so expensive? Low supply high demand. High demand because they have downtowns and train station. Even on this forum, how many times does someone want to live near a train station and a walkable downtown and we tell them go to Montclair? It's not a big city lol supply is limited but it's the style of place many people want.
I nearly moved to the suburbs a couple of years ago, not because I want to live in the suburbs, but because affordable housing in decent urban neighborhoods is scarce, especially with one income.
My list included Nutley, parts of Bloomfield, and Cranford. Nice areas, if you're into that life, but I just wasn't excited about the thought of living in any of them. I would have needed to buy a car. And a lawnmower.
Fortunately after a few years of looking at nearly every listing in JC, I found something that worked for me and that I could afford! Some of my friends gave up searching and moved out. But most of them didn't go to the suburbs. They went to Philadelphia or Baltimore, other old, urban cities.
Exactly. I know VERY FEW millennials who desire that type of neighborhood and lifestyle. However, for some looking to buy, it's the sad reality that it's all they can afford. Again, supply and demand. Why would so many of the wealthy towns with downtowns and train stations be so expensive? Low supply high demand. High demand because they have downtowns and train station. Even on this forum, how many times does someone want to live near a train station and a walkable downtown and we tell them go to Montclair? It's not a big city lol supply is limited but it's the style of place many people want.
Even in towns like Ridgewood, where there is a very nice downtown and train station, there is such a resistance to developments. These downtowns NEED people. And in Paramus they are building a development close to the mall and some were going crazy. Well these malls also need people! In fact the plan is to eventually make Paramus Park mall more into a mixed development with housing and commercial mixed all together. There will be a supermarket there, there's already a dentist there, there is public transit right in the mall, etc. Here is an example of one, I have been there before - King of Prussia Town Center - Shop, Dine, Live & Work in King of Prussia PA .There are apartments, townhouses, etc all there. Besides for some of the suburbs being cheaper, there is not much argument FOR the suburbs. Yea u can have a 3800 sq foot house but many dont want that anymore...it just becomes one big COST
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