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I don't care how adequate your pub. transport network is when it comes to a family shopping for groceries. Lugging around 20+ bags of groceries is not an option on a bus or a train. The same goes for multiple children.
Amtrak or air travel? What world do you live in? My aunt lives in Maryland and I frequently visit. A round trip flight costs upwards of $250 PLUS getting to the airport PLUS all the hassle checking in for the flight. Same goes for Amtrak except the tickets cost around $150.
A car will cost me $40 in fuel and and another ~$30 in wear and tear and insurance for the few hundred miles.
The B41? I have waited a few times for upwards of an hour at 2am for the B41. You know what I started doing? I drive a car to the Flatbush Junction subway station so when I get off the 2 train at 2 am I can drive home.
Manhattan's pub. transport network is great. In the outer boroughs it's simply adequate. Thus, you need a car.
Amtrak if booked in advanced is 90-100$ roundtrip...
too many cars when there is a finite amount of street parking available. if there were not an overabundance of cars, nobody (private vehicles or commercial vehicles) would ever double park on a street where a bus runs such that any kind of delay in bus service occurred, except for emergency reasons. or Con-Ed doing work underground or a parked tractor that is parked parallel and adjacent to the curb but sticking out into the next lane due to its width or whatever.
Actually, it's not always about the unavailability of street parking, it's about the unavailability within distance of a destination that is a cause of double parking in many instances that I tend to witness. I have seen places to park half a block away, yet someone will double park. Similarly, during daylight hours when it is legal to block a hydrant, provided the driver stays with the vehicle, I routinely see people discharge a passenger and then feebly attempt to pull close to parked cars with the hazard lights on, standing while the passenger runs into whatever shop or business. They should not even be discharging a passenger double to the curb, since I do not know why they do not pull in at the nearest corner, hydrant, bus stop, loading zone, etc. for said purpose, but I guess that would mean that they are a considerate driver who does not have an inflated sense of importance. I have also noticed that double parking is a neighborhood issue, as well, in that certain neighborhoods tolerate double parking more than others, regardless as to the level of enforcement, such that the culture of double parking is deemed acceptable by residents in that area.
Laziness and a sense of entitlement is also a large factor in double parking, I find. However, there are neighborhoods that have precious few options for parking, such as the Brownstone Belt in Brooklyn, parts of Forest Hills, etc. where properties were built without any private parking. As a driver such behavior is very frustrating, but it's not the norm for most who drive vehicles. For example, I do not, and will not double park, absent a vehicular emergency in which it is rendered inoperable in a traffic lane, and I am awaiting a tow truck's response. When I go to visit relatives in Park Slope, I know where to legally park, and don't even bother trying to find a spot in front of their house. They don't even park in front of their house, and retrieve the vehicle from the garage when it is needed. If one has the resources to own and operate a vehicle, parking it legally, even at cost is part of that responsibility, and may weigh in the decision as to whether or not a trip is viable by private vehicle if the level to which said trip is comfortably affordable is predicated on the availability of on-street parking in the immediate vicinity of the destination. I never factor street parking being available, and if it is, think of it as a bonus. Then again, I will only use it for short periods, so as to minimize potential damage to my vehicle. It's not impossible to be able to drive and find a legal place to park one's car that meets their comfort level for expenditure, even in neighborhoods with a lack of on-street parking resources. One can park further away from their destination in a free/low cost metered space that requires longer physical exertion in the trek to the destination, and one can pay for garage parking closer to many destinations.
While there is a finite capacity for street parking, it's not yet impossible to find a place to park in the city, including Manhattan, as I have managed just fine without parking tickets, double parking, and inconveniencing myself or my passengers.
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All the world's a stage, and all the men and women merely players: they have their exits and their entrances; and one man in his time plays many parts, his acts being seven ages.
~William Shakespeare (As You Like It Act II, Scene VII)
bmwguydc, you speak like a lawyer. that is a compliment. I am referring to your ability to use language really well (like the word "predicated").
remember though that the other issue is the double parking that delivery vehicles do due to a lack of loading zones with hours sufficient to prevent them from having to double park on streets where buses run. but again if they eliminated street parking spaces to add loading zones and increase loading zone hours, people could just use garages.
there is still a problem because you might have places where somebody wants to build a garage to compensate for eliminated street parking spaces (since nobody would agree to give up the parking spaces outright) but nobody wants the garage built because they want the space to be used for stores or residential buildings instead..do newly built public garages decrease property values?
so that I can see the relationship between a person's reasons for owning a car and how good the mass transit network is in that person's neighborhood. Thank you.
This is BS. You did not start a thread to discover anything about mass transit in anyone's neighborhood. You started it to advance your agenda. I can't believe I just wasted 10 minutes reading this.
I live in Gerritsen Beach, Brooklyn and I drive. I have 2 toddlers. There is one bus line and no train line here. In order to go to my gym, which is about an 8 minute drive, I'd have to take 2 buses for an hour. There are no meters or alternate side parking here.
in NYC, too much traffic and too much street space dedicated to private vehicle parking (see post #28), both of which compromise bus service quality. in general, too much traffic and too much pollution. these are not the only reasons.
The inefficiency of the MTA and the lackadaisical attitudes of many a bus driver also compromise bus service quality.
which groups do you think are compromising service quality more? why?
The MTA and many a driver. The organization isn't run efficiently at all. There is massive waste and under-performance. I don't think that's a revelation though.
The "why" would take too long of a reply. If you want better service start with the MTA.
You need a car if you plan on going anywhere on weekends and in the summer. Also for grocery shopping and shopping for larger items. And if you have kids, a car improves your quality of life by 100%. The subway is for every day commuting and for most events at night
Quote:
Originally Posted by nykiddo718718
That's not true. For local trips (metro area) Zip Car is fine, for longer trips Amtrack for NE corridor or flights to anywhere. In NYC, most people live in close proximity to grocery stores (like 5 minute walk) so it's probably your neighborhood. I have a good number of grocery stores within a half mile of my home.
You need a car if you want better groceries for less. Everyone has a keyfood or Gristedies or whatever in their neighborhood. But I would rather have a warehouse sized selection from Stop & Shop or Pathmark for 25% less cost, or even better Trader Joes with more specialty brands at 50% the cost.
I'm not going to waste my time with Zip Car. We use our car more than enough to justify the minimal cost (our apartment is $2000, so you figure that out $325 car payment plus roughly $100 in insurance plus gas is insignificant compared to that and when you consider the importance of transportation). I'm not paying for 4 people on Amtrak and then having to deal with local transport to/from the train station and then getting around after that. Are you crazy?
And Amtrak doesn't go to half the places we want to go. Like central connecticut, Metro North just hugs the coast. Forget that. Owning a car is the way the go as long as you have a place to park. We have plenty of street parking for free, and if you can afford it $300-$400/month for a parking garage is a pretty good option.
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