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What CB is the northwestern part of Maspeth in? What about Glendale east of Woodhaven blvd? Or Ozone Park north of 103rd ave? Also Woodside north of Northern blvd? All have small sections that lie in other CBs. Community boards are not the golden source to where a neighborhood starts and ends. That area was initially developed as Bushwick, so if people want to call it Bushwick again today, then so be it. There is a poster here on City Data that grew up in the Bushwick PJs. Guess what neighborhood he says he's from?
As for the Bushwick vs Bed-Stuy comparison, then take Franklin or Bedford aves in Bed-Stuy. They still can't touch Troutman. If I was going to open up a restaurant or retail store, you bet I'd take a location on Troutman long before that of either Franklin or Bedford. Vogue magazine is some pretty good publicity. Check out some of these places on a Tuesday night. They are making money.
Do you really think the Hasidics aren't buying properties in Bushwick? Of course they are. Difference is that the property generates too much income for them to actually live in 'em. Check rents in the trendy parts of Bushwick, they're outrageous. You can't say something is overpriced if people are paying for them. It does not matter if you wouldn't.
And speaking of transient populations. Lets think of the neighborhoods with the most transient population in the country. First ones that come to mind are all the neighborhoods south of 110th st in Manhattan, then Williamsburg, then Greenpoint, then Astoria. Hmmmm....guess all those people will be moving out for good soon leaving those places to end up as ghost towns.
As for Ridgewood, I can care less about your definition of gentrification. Fact is that it has the most recent commercial transactions in all of the city and there has been a large increase in deposits reported at the local bank branches. Call it what you like, but it is definitely attracting much more interest. "The same people that have lived in this area for years already" are "the people that are buying up these condos or luxury apartment rentals?" Yet there are no empty apartments and they are developing the empty lots. What gives? Everyone is buying second homes across the street?
Ah. I see from this comment you just like to play devil's advocate without any solid facts... Never mind carry on
Ah. I see from this comment you just like to play devil's advocate without any solid facts... Never mind carry on
As if you threw fact after fact after fact at me. You preach nonsense out of fear. Sounds like someones lease is about to expire. You can probably still find something in Bed-Stuy within your budget. Bushwick not so much, they had the highest rent increases in the city.
As if you threw fact after fact after fact at me. You preach nonsense out of fear. Sounds like someones lease is about to expire. You can probably still find something in Bed-Stuy within your budget. Bushwick not so much, they had the highest rent increases in the city.
Everything I mentioned to you was either backed up through a link or can be verified by doing a simple census research on whose buying up the buildings... Every response you gave to me had no solid backing whatsoever and can easily be disproven by doing cost comparisons and doing the necessary research one would need to do...
Furthermore, just to address the simple point on Ridgewood... You know exactly what I meant by the same people buying up the buildings... Obviously we're not physically talking about the same people but you chose to come across as an idiot just to play devil's advocate (quite convincingly I might add)... But to simplify the point for someone who seems to have difficulty understanding basic points... Gentrification in essence means the replacement of poor low income people or families with higher earners... My whole point about it was being that this is a working middle class neighborhood and that the majority of the people buying or renting these condos, luxury apartments, co-ops or regular 1-2 apartments are of the same ilk then that does not qualify as gentrification...
What is happening in Bushwick, Bed-stuy, Crown Heights, Sunset Park, Cypress Hills... That does qualify as gentrification though it is still largely overblown but what is happening in Ridgewood is not. When high income earners ($200,000+) begin moving into Ridgewood in droves, that is when we can say that gentrification is taking place... Until then you are simply speaking out your
[quote=G-Dale;36865872]I was not referring to gentrification but to where the artsy folks want to be (like the actress in this example). And that's not Nostrand or Utica Aves. Its Troutman st in Bushwick and Bogart st in nowhere land.[quote]
Also regarding this point... Bogart is nowhere near Bushwick... Bogart is clearly in East Williamsburg as is 95% of where the show Girls actually takes place. As I've said I'm pretty sure the main reason for the move was due to the fact that her decision to move closer in to gritty Bushwick ended up being a little too much for her to take...
It's probably why a house owned by a celebrity didn't appreciate the way it normally would have as well... She built the place up and only got what an extra 2-3 hundred thousand... When houses in the Stuy are selling for 2-3 million... Give me a break...
Everything I mentioned to you was either backed up through a link or can be verified by doing a simple census research on whose buying up the buildings... Every response you gave to me had no solid backing whatsoever and can easily be disproven by doing cost comparisons and doing the necessary research one would need to do...
Furthermore, just to address the simple point on Ridgewood... You know exactly what I meant by the same people buying up the buildings... Obviously we're not physically talking about the same people but you chose to come across as an idiot just to play devil's advocate (quite convincingly I might add)... But to simplify the point for someone who seems to have difficulty understanding basic points... Gentrification in essence means the replacement of poor low income people or families with higher earners... My whole point about it was being that this is a working middle class neighborhood and that the majority of the people buying or renting these condos, luxury apartments, co-ops or regular 1-2 apartments are of the same ilk then that does not qualify as gentrification...
What is happening in Bushwick, Bed-stuy, Crown Heights, Sunset Park, Cypress Hills... That does qualify as gentrification though it is still largely overblown but what is happening in Ridgewood is not. When high income earners ($200,000+) begin moving into Ridgewood in droves, that is when we can say that gentrification is taking place... Until then you are simply speaking out your
Again, I don't give a damn about your definitions, made up facts or the word "gentrification." Currently if less than a 3-family home in Bed-Stuy is selling for the prices you quote than it is a microscopic reflection of our nations societal issues. Because it doesn't seem like its the poor moving out but the middle/working class that it once had. As for the lack of appreciation on that Flushing ave property, its across from the projects. That cuts out a lot of buyers whether in Bushwick or Bed-Stuy.
Regarding Ridgewood (and Bushwick), I'd take the financial increase at the aggregate rather than just a minority of millionaires any day of the week. It is retaining the population that defines its character. If you come across success you stay, rather than flee for the suburbs. And that is much more beneficial to any neighborhood and one of the most challenging aspects. Much more so than bringing in a wealthy minority. The wealthy won't be starting local businesses. They are simply there for the brownstones.
FYI...I've been receiving flyers from Manhattan based brokers asking I sell my home. This is as of very recent.
Again, I don't give a damn about your definitions, made up facts or the word "gentrification." Currently if less than a 3-family home in Bed-Stuy is selling for the prices you quote than it is a microscopic reflection of our nations societal issues. Because it doesn't seem like its the poor moving out but the middle/working class that it once had. As for the lack of appreciation on that Flushing ave property, its across from the projects. That cuts out a lot of buyers whether in Bushwick or Bed-Stuy.
Regarding Ridgewood (and Bushwick), I'd take the financial increase at the aggregate rather than just a minority of millionaires any day of the week. It is retaining the population that defines its character. If you come across success you stay, rather than flee for the suburbs. And that is much more beneficial to any neighborhood and one of the most challenging aspects. Much more so than bringing in a wealthy minority. The wealthy won't be starting local businesses. They are simply there for the brownstones.
FYI...I've been receiving flyers from Manhattan based brokers asking I sell my home. This is as of very recent.
You use a lot of big words to mask the truth but within your own statements you agree with my underlying points so why even argue... Let's take your post point by point...
Last I checked Ridgewood was never deteriorating and as we've mentioned upper class or affluent people are not replacing poorer residents... You were saying?
Regardless of how you feel about Bed-stuy the reality is the market in Bed-stuy is on fire compared to Bushwick's spark. If you compare strictly Community District 4's guidelines of Bushwick's market to the housing market in Bed-stuy there is no comparison. However, when you have creative lines where Lower East Side/Williamsburg/Southside/Greenpoint/Ridgewood become a part of Bushwick then the numbers change a little bit.
Furthermore, if she was so interested in truly living in Bushwick as their show supposedly seems to focus on, why not look in the heart of Bushwick as opposed to realtor definitions of where Bushwick begins... Because she knows what we all know but so many choose to ignore... That Bushwick is the equivalent of putting lipstick on a pig...
Now the part that I bolded I truly find comical because without realizing you contradicted yourself and in doing so actually agreed with what I've been saying all along. For one, financial increases at the aggregate level is not what's happening but then you admit that by saying retaining the same population is what defines a neighborhood character... I agree... And that is exactly what is happening, not gentrification. You can look at the census figures and compare COL between today's times and 10 years ago and actually this neighborhood fared much better back then than it does now... That being said, there's no question it's a better neighborhood, but is gentrification the reason behind that? Absolutely not.
You use a lot of big words to mask the truth but within your own statements you agree with my underlying points so why even argue... Let's take your post point by point...
Last I checked Ridgewood was never deteriorating and as we've mentioned upper class or affluent people are not replacing poorer residents... You were saying?
Regardless of how you feel about Bed-stuy the reality is the market in Bed-stuy is on fire compared to Bushwick's spark. If you compare strictly Community District 4's guidelines of Bushwick's market to the housing market in Bed-stuy there is no comparison. However, when you have creative lines where Lower East Side/Williamsburg/Southside/Greenpoint/Ridgewood become a part of Bushwick then the numbers change a little bit.
Furthermore, if she was so interested in truly living in Bushwick as their show supposedly seems to focus on, why not look in the heart of Bushwick as opposed to realtor definitions of where Bushwick begins... Because she knows what we all know but so many choose to ignore... That Bushwick is the equivalent of putting lipstick on a pig...
Now the part that I bolded I truly find comical because without realizing you contradicted yourself and in doing so actually agreed with what I've been saying all along. For one, financial increases at the aggregate level is not what's happening but then you admit that by saying retaining the same population is what defines a neighborhood character... I agree... And that is exactly what is happening, not gentrification. You can look at the census figures and compare COL between today's times and 10 years ago and actually this neighborhood fared much better back then than it does now... That being said, there's no question it's a better neighborhood, but is gentrification the reason behind that? Absolutely not.
First off, your the one arguing with me. Second, we come from very different perspectives. Growing up in Glendale I never would have thought about living in Ridgewood. I figured I would eventually move out to Long Island or something. That mentality changed, and for a lot of people.
As for that Bed-Stuy property, you very well know that it is an outlier. And look at how much inventory there is in Bed-Stuy. Look at how many properties are asked at such outrageous prices vs how many actually sell for them. It is mostly investors buying them for rental income or making these ridiculous photoshopped upgrades. Your a sucka for marketing.
And where are all these affluent newcomers hanging out? They are nowhere to be seen. Sure you see an influx of white faces, but no more than you would see in Bushwick. Or even Ridgewood where I feel like I see new faces all the time on my block. They must all hang out in Williamsburg I guess, because there definitely aren't that many new businesses in Bed-Stuy catering to them. Not like in Bushwick where new bars, cafes and restaurants seem to open up much more often (again, all up and down Troutman).
I'm pretty sure it has more to do with the fact that her big mouth painted a ginormous target on her building for the nice wholesome people at Bushwick and Borinquen Plaza PJ's... The first of which has been especially hot this year...
Also, what crack are you smoking when you mention Bed-stuy... Bed-stuy right now is gentrifying FAR quicker than Bushwick... What's happening to Bushwick is what happened to other areas like LES, Southside and East Williamsburg which is a slow but steady process of urban renewal... Bushwick has been discussed for gentrification purposes since the 90s and really only began to truly take off around 2-3 years ago... Additionally, it is still largely unchanged demographics wise other than it becoming less black and more Hispanic... The only part of Bushwick that has seen significant change but it is still nowhere near majority white/hipster/Asian/etc. is the area near the East Williamsburg border... People can discuss where the border ends until they're blue in the face but CD#4 is pretty clear on what the borders of Bushwick are and even Bushwick ave runs into East Williamsburg once you pass Flushing ave.
Once you cross Himrod and in some parts Harman St. the rest of the neighborhood looks pretty much as it always has with a sprinkle of white faces here and there... Bed-stuy has significant sections that have become either 50/50 or majority white in a relatively short amount of time and the money that is being thrown around in Bed-stuy for the amount of crime it still has is far more ridiculous than Bushwick...
It's clear where those with the intention of putting down roots and/or seeing significant return on investment are looking into...
Finally, you seem to have this obsession with mentioning Ridgewood as part of the gentrification process as if this working class neighborhood needs something like that... While I'll give you certain parts of Ridgewood near the Bushwick border have definitely seen some changes in the last year or so and former factories are being bought up to make way for condos, if you look at whose purchasing these new condos and whose renting in these luxury apartments, other than a couple of new faces, what you see is what you'll normally see for this area, a mix of Hispanic, Black, Asian and Eastern European people moving into these places and calling it home (example: look at the demographics of the condos that were built on top of the Rite Aid by Jefferson avenue and Cypress)... The idea of a hipster invasion taking over Ridgewood is largely overblown... But then again what else is new...
In 2014 Bed-Stuy is more dangerous than Bushwick. I'm not saying Bushwick is safe, but when you're comparing crime in BW, with a neighborhood that makes Brownsville mortal, you'd most definitely lose.
Western Bed-Stuy : 1,213 crimes per 100,000 people
Eastern Bed-Stuy : 1,652 crimes per 100,000 people which BTW is # 1 in the city
Where would you rather invest? Give me Bushwick all day.
From the nypd crime map.
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which BTW is # 1 in the city
