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I wasn't specifically talking about race...and I do agree with that.
Sorry, that's just the vibe I got from your post. I'm not a big fan of white interlopers from the 'burbs and "Iowa" in general, so being compared to them makes me defensive.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Relaxx
Overall, The Bronx is just considered "lowest of the low" in the eyes of many New Yorkers and people new to the city can quickly learn where to go and where not to.
The poverty, dirtiness and crime certainly don't help that reputation. We may be 40 years removed from "The Bronx is Burning", but with Manhattan completely gentrified, Brooklyn following suit, most of Staten Island being middle-class whites and much of Queens being improved, the Bronx is left in the dark by default.
There is a big difference between gentrifying and improving. The Bronx has made incredible and unbelievable improvements since the dark days of the 1970's and 1980's. You have to look hard to find a boarded up apartment building.
But that doesn't mean it's gentrifying. When I think of the term gentrifying, I think of a crappy neighborhood like Bushwick in Brooklyn, which is lined with 2-family and 3-family houses. A tenant, Jose and Maria from Mexico and their child or children, have a rent of $1,200/month for three bedrooms. When their lease is up, they are evicted, and are replaced by Steve, Bill and Bob, who have a rent of $2,200/month.
To the best of my knowledge, that is not happening anywhere in The Bronx.
Gentrifying lowers crime and raises property value. It kills culture, if there is any in the neighborhood, but if you don't live in the neighborhood and travel through it on the bus or train, I'm sure you'd prefer gentrified than gritty and real.
Sorry, that's just the vibe I got from your post. I'm not a big fan of white interlopers from the 'burbs and "Iowa" in general, so being compared to them makes me defensive.
The poverty, dirtiness and crime certainly don't help that reputation. We may be 40 years removed from "The Bronx is Burning", but with Manhattan completely gentrified, Brooklyn following suit, most of Staten Island being middle-class whites and much of Queens being improved, the Bronx is left in the dark by default.
I'm not sure if you follow or read any form of history. The borough of the Bronx has a long period of poverty, and often at times generational poverty regardless of race. Hell my mom even knew a white Jewish lady of Eastern Euro ancestry who had her first child at age 13. Bronx has been known for its high crime rates for well before the Bronx is burning. In matter of fact 1930s Bronx was one of the worst places to be in NYC. Bronx was also home to many subpar tenements which had to be raised to the ground in place of more modern and affordable federally funded housing projects. I don't think the Bronx was left in the dark, plenty of history, politics and art came out of the Bronx. As for Manhattan to compleltely gentrify. Lol Only minor parts of Manhattan have been gentrified like LES which began in the mid 80s. East Village gentrification started in the 1960s. Harlem, and Mornining side Heights started during the turn of the 21st century. Much of Manhattan did not need gentrification because it was already wealthy. The last bastion of poverty and decay in Manhattan is in Chinatown. As for Brooklyn?, Even with gentrification still has some high rates of poverty, only small group of Brooklynites benefited from gentrification either if you own businesses, own property or educated. Like many Bronxites, most Brooklynites do not own property, many are not educated, and many others do not own local businesses.
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Originally Posted by Relaxx
The Bronx is like NYC's forsaken lovechild.
The Bronx gets no love.
I don't see hipsters moving to the boogie down like Brooklyn. There arent enough Brownstones, too much public housing full of ghetto people that you hate, and multitude of others.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Relaxx
Yes, another post that confirms the Bronx's as one of the worst places for hispter and gentrifier settlement.
I see Hipsters everyday at my stop by 138st. Yes the area is full of Housing projects, but many other areas with gentrification have projects too like the LES, and Harlem. One time I had to cut through the projects and I saw a Nordic white guy in backpack walk through the Mitchell projects, and saw a white woman jog through it. I SMFH. Sometimes at 161st I see a yuppie here or there walking about late hours. Or I may come across a white chick walking with her yoga mat. I don't call that gentrification but I can see it is some sort of change and acceptance going on. People are looking for cheaper rent while still being close to Manhattan.
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Originally Posted by Bobby BK
My family have lived in Brooklyn since the late 1800s. Other than sharing the same race with most hipsters and gentrifiers, I don't have anything in common with them.
The fact that only 1/8 of the people in the Bronx are white certainly makes it less desirable for certain types, but that's hardly the only reason to not be a fan of the borough.
Your first statement is very true. Most hipsters and other Transplant types do not have anything culturally in common with native white folks, its like both groups are separate races. A vacation for a yuppie is like going to Costa Rica or Thailand or some eco tourism in the Amazon, a Vacation for a native New Yorker is like going to Florida, Jamaica or Dominican Republic. Your second statement is true, however Transplants do not have anything in common with native white New Yorkers. Besides Astoria and to certain extent Greenpoint Brooklyn, most hipster and yuppie types do not live near any native white folks unless they are money types. Hell, a good portion of Brooklyn white folks are Hasidic Jews, how attractive is that? DC and areas of Philly are mostly Black and gentrified within a decade or two. Even poor Irish parts of Boston gentrified, natives are culturally different than the yuppie hipster types. Race is not the issue its purely economics and location!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Relaxx
I think some people in the Bronx have also been in poverty longer than many other people in the city. Welfare has created a dependency complex among a lot of these people. (and for some you people reading along, no not everyone in the Bronx is a welfare recipient.)
Many places I look at in the South Bronx have places saying "We Accept EBT", "We Accept WIC", so yes I am very well aware that poverty is a huge problem in the Bronx.
and you are also correct in saying that no one will live in a poor area for diversity's sake...I WON'T.
The people who can afford to leave do...and that always has been the case. You are correct.
You don't travel around NYC much do you? Even on myrtle avenue which I was there recently on New Years I saw EBT and WIC signs up. Poverty is a huge problem not only in the Bronx, but it is a huge problem city wide. Poverty does not go away on its own. Poverty lives side by side with gentrification and a good example of that is in gentry areas of Brooklyn and parts of Manhattan. How often do you hear about Yuppie, Transplants being victimized by locals for their iphones? Nowadays you see homeless with makeshift boxes sleeping next to doorman buildings. WTF this is not India? But don't worry walk around drinking your Fiji water and a bag of Whole Foods products while you look down at masses.
Don't blame me for how the Bronx is, blame corrupt political machine Bronx politicians such as the Espadas, Rivieras, Diaz, Sorrano and others. Bronx has experienced some form of gentrification but its not as heavy as Harlem or Williamsburg. Areas of Mott Haven may have experienced lite gentrification or spoon fed sample of it but its nowhere near what you see in Wiliamsburg or in Harlem. I think if Bloomberg was to win a 4th term, Bronx nabes would have witness increased gentrification. But with the election of Bill De Blasio and his war on tale of two cities, any one should forget about certain parts of the Bronx of the Bronx being gentrified. Only the areas South of 161st may see some sort of revitalization and renewed interest from speculative real estate industry. The Hipsters and Yuppies can have NYC and the Bronx too.
Last edited by Bronxguyanese; 02-13-2014 at 01:00 AM..
Your first statement is very true. Most hipsters and other Transplant types do not have anything culturally in common with native white folks, its like both groups are separate races. A vacation for a yuppie is like going to Costa Rica or Thailand or some eco tourism in the Amazon, a Vacation for a native New Yorker is like going to Florida, Jamaica or Dominican Republic.
Yup. Other going than Italy, as an ethnic Italian, my idea of tourism is extremely different than the "typical" yuppie's. My traditional vacation spots have been South Florida, Canada, and Las Vegas. While the yuppie goes to Paris, Aspen, Hawaii, etc.
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Originally Posted by Bronxguyanese
Your second statement is true, however Transplants do not have anything in common with native white New Yorkers. Besides Astoria and to certain extent Greenpoint Brooklyn, most hipster and yuppie types do not live near any native white folks unless they are money types. Hell, a good portion of Brooklyn white folks are Hasidic Jews, how attractive is that? DC and areas of Philly are mostly Black and gentrified within a decade or two. Even poor Irish parts of Boston gentrified, natives are culturally different than the yuppie hipster types. Race is not the issue its purely economics and location!
Good call with Greenpoint.
But I'd include Park Slope in that too. Not so much with the hipsters, but It's become the yuppie headquarters, yet there's still a multi-generational working-class white presence. I have cousins who've been in Park Slope for 50~ years, and know nowhere else, and they've got quite a few neighbors who have a similar backstory.
Your first statement is very true. Most hipsters and other Transplant types do not have anything culturally in common with native white folks, its like both groups are separate races. A vacation for a yuppie is like going to Costa Rica or Thailand or some eco tourism in the Amazon, a Vacation for a native New Yorker is like going to Florida, Jamaica or Dominican Republic. Your second statement is true, however Transplants do not have anything in common with native white New Yorkers. Besides Astoria and to certain extent Greenpoint Brooklyn, most hipster and yuppie types do not live near any native white folks unless they are money types. Hell, a good portion of Brooklyn white folks are Hasidic Jews, how attractive is that? DC and areas of Philly are mostly Black and gentrified within a decade or two. Even poor Irish parts of Boston gentrified, natives are culturally different than the yuppie hipster types. Race is not the issue its purely economics and location!
Aren't you making massive assumptions about Native whites and for that matter transplants? You certainly have a lot of wealthy, well traveled white Native New Yorkers.
You also have Native New Yorkers who are hipsters.
We are small landlords in Bedford Park, and we definitely have lots interest from people that you wouldn't typically think would consider the Bronx - more and more every time we rent out. We have had tenants from as far away as Wyoming, Nevada and California (most were students at Lehman College). We also have interest from many young middle class families. There are not a lot of hipsters here, but you do see them as well.
However, when I think of gentrification, I think of wealthy people moving in, and that is not the applicants we get. We get people looking here because of the reasonable prices, not trust fund types. In general, I think that income diversification would benefit the Bronx, but we like that everything is less expensive here - food / restaurants etc., so are not looking for the neighborhood to change significantly.
A lot of these supposed native vs. transplant differences sound more like working/middle vs. upper middle/upper class differences to me. Not just in this thread but on this forum generally.
I see Hipsters everyday at my stop by 138st. Yes the area is full of Housing projects, but many other areas with gentrification have projects too like the LES, and Harlem. One time I had to cut through the projects and I saw a Nordic white guy in backpack walk through the Mitchell projects, and saw a white woman jog through it. I SMFH. Sometimes at 161st I see a yuppie here or there walking about late hours. Or I may come across a white chick walking with her yoga mat. I don't call that gentrification but I can see it is some sort of change and acceptance going on. People are looking for cheaper rent while still being close to Manhattan.
I didn't say you won't find a hipsters in the Bronx.
But to say that they will be moving there in large numbers...I don't think there is a high chance.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bronxguyanese
You don't travel around NYC much do you? Even on myrtle avenue which I was there recently on New Years I saw EBT and WIC signs up. Poverty is a huge problem not only in the Bronx, but it is a huge problem city wide. Poverty does not go away on its own. Poverty lives side by side with gentrification and a good example of that is in gentry areas of Brooklyn and parts of Manhattan. How often do you hear about Yuppie, Transplants being victimized by locals for their iphones? Nowadays you see homeless with makeshift boxes sleeping next to doorman buildings. WTF this is not India? But don't worry walk around drinking your Fiji water and a bag of Whole Foods products while you look down at masses.
Yes, I do travel around NYC often.
I didn't say you won't see EBT or WIC signs in parts of Brooklyn. I'm very well aware that you will see them.
regardless, The Bronx is still one of the poorest parts of NYC.
and you are correct because I remember there was a crime of spree of people getting robbed for Iphones at one point in the city.
As for people looking down on poor people, this will always be the case (because many gentrifiers do), as we can't change their prejudiced views or ways. Do I like it...no. But prejudiced people do exist.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bronxguyanese
Don't blame me for how the Bronx is, blame corrupt political machine Bronx politicians such as the Espadas, Rivieras, Diaz, Sorrano and others. Bronx has experienced some form of gentrification but its not as heavy as Harlem or Williamsburg. Areas of Mott Haven may have experienced lite gentrification or spoon fed sample of it but its nowhere near what you see in Wiliamsburg or in Harlem. I think if Bloomberg was to win a 4th term, Bronx nabes would have witness increased gentrification. But with the election of Bill De Blasio and his war on tale of two cities, any one should forget about certain parts of the Bronx of the Bronx being gentrified. Only the areas South of 161st may see some sort of revitalization and renewed interest from speculative real estate industry. The Hipsters and Yuppies can have NYC and the Bronx too.
I wasn't blaming you or anyone else and I know that even if the Bronx does gentrify it won't be to the level of Williamsburg.
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Bronx has been known for its high crime rates for well before the Bronx is burning. In matter of fact 1930s Bronx was one of the worst places to be in NYC. Bronx was also home to many subpar tenements which had to be raised to the ground in place of more modern and affordable federally funded housing projects. I don't think the Bronx was left in the dark, plenty of history, politics and art came out of the Bronx. As for Manhattan to compleltely gentrify. Lol Only minor parts of Manhattan have been gentrified like LES which began in the mid 80s. East Village gentrification started in the 1960s. Harlem, and Mornining side Heights started during the turn of the 21st century. Much of Manhattan did not need gentrification because it was already wealthy. The last bastion of poverty and decay in Manhattan is in Chinatown. As for Brooklyn?, Even with gentrification still has some high rates of poverty, only small group of Brooklynites benefited from gentrification either if you own businesses, own property or educated. Like many Bronxites, most Brooklynites do not own property, many are not educated, and many others do not own local businesses.
