Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
When did I say they gentrified in the 80s? I said they were not exclusively African American neighborhoods in the 80s. Harlem had lots of immigrants even in the 80s. Ditto Bedstuy. Lots of Jamaicans were in Bedstuy in the 80s, while Harlem already had African and Dominicans moving in large numbers, and of course East Harlem had lots of Puerto Ricans. Immigration to NYC is not new.
True. From what I understand there have long been Caribbean and African immigrants in black NYC neighborhoods.
I also think it's not relevant to say: there is crime in the Caribbean and Africa.
Why? Those who immigrate tend to have some means, particularly those who come from Africa which is a LONG plane ride away. But even the Caribbean.
The poorest in those countries do not immigrate, because just to have the airfare means you are not a poor person in Caribbean and African countries.
In particular some Africans who immigrate are more highly educated than the average American of any ethnicity: I am thinking of Nigerian-Americans in particular who have an extremely high level of education.
True. From what I understand there have long been Caribbean and African immigrants in black NYC neighborhoods.
I also think it's not relevant to say: there is crime in the Caribbean and Africa.
Why? Those who immigrate tend to have some means, particularly those who come from Africa which is a LONG plane ride away. But even the Caribbean. The poorest in those countries do not immigrate, because just to have the airfare means you are not a poor person in Caribbean and African countries.
In particular some Africans who immigrate are more highly educated than the average American of any ethnicity: I am thinking of Nigerian-Americans in particular who have an extremely high level of education.
This is very true that it is harder for the poorest of the poor to come to the United States, and that many immigrants from these countries are well educated. However that is not true of all of the immigrants from those countries, and even those that do have educations, unless they came here on a work or student visa often don't have access to decent jobs. You'll often here stories of someone who was a professional back home driving a cab here in the states. In order to find professional work here they'll have to get a graduate degree in the states and/or the relevant professional licenses.
This is very true that it is harder for the poorest of the poor to come to the United States, and that many immigrants from these countries are well educated. However that is not true of all of the immigrants from those countries, and even those that do have educations, unless they came here on a work or student visa often don't have access to decent jobs. You'll often here stories of someone who was a professional back home driving a cab here in the states. In order to find professional work here they'll have to get a graduate degree in the states and/or the relevant professional licenses.
Agreed. But still, even those graduate school-educated cab drivers don't tend to be the people committing crimes...
For the most part, Caribbeans and Africans in NYC had/have higher median incomes and more stable households than black Americans. In my cohort of about 40 MS Finance students there were 3 black students. Guess who they were? 1 Carribean and 2 African. Anecdotal? Yes. Part of a wider phenomenon? Yes.
Caribbean and African blacks tend to be better educated than African Americans. At least the ones who end up here do if my experience at the taxi garage was any indication. They're well-spoken, tend to not use the N word or street slang, and were always ready to banter about politics or current events. Culturally very different people.
Chicago has a gun problem first and foremost. The gun's rights advocates will despise this but it's a well known fact that guns and poor inner city neighborhoods don't mix well, and stricter gun laws need to be put into place nationwide to keep them out of the hands of people they shouldn't be falling into.
Relatively strict gun laws in Cook County and the city of Chicago won't do much good when they share an undefended border with an equally slummy area of Indiana, a notoriously conservative state where guns are easy to get. NYC at least has the luxury of being surrounded by states that are as equally strict on guns as New York City and State are. People cant be shot with illegal guns that never make it into their neighborhood due to simple logistical and geographical difficulties.
Chicago has a gun problem first and foremost. The gun's rights advocates will despise this but it's a well known fact that guns and poor inner city neighborhoods don't mix well, and stricter gun laws need to be put into place nationwide to keep them out of the hands of people they shouldn't be falling into.
Relatively strict gun laws in Cook County and the city of Chicago won't do much good when they share an undefended border with an equally slummy area of Indiana, a notoriously conservative state where guns are easy to get. NYC at least has the luxury of being surrounded by states that are as equally strict on guns as New York City and State are. People cant be shot with illegal guns that never make it into their neighborhood due to simple logistical and geographical difficulties.
Many guns are traced back to VA, NC, SC, GA in NYC. To put this in perspective, Canada blames it's gun crime on the US, and they have a fully guarded international border to protect them. The UK has guns showing up in London that have Russian origins. Chicago has a gang/drug problem with a ridiculously corrupt police force and political machine to boot. Chitown has been violent for decades but now all of the sudden it's an issue?
I lived in Chicago briefly, about 6 months, before running back to NYC. I broke my one year lease if that tells you anything. I was in the Gold Coast, which is on the Near North side, in between downtown and Lakeview/Lincoln Park. It was the most racist, segregated place I have ever been. And this is coming from someone born in Detroit. I was supposedly in the "good" part of the city but I saw violence there all the time. I remember seeing a grown black man getting stabbed in broad daylight. Young kids beating each other during gang initiations. Mentally ill drunks getting on the Red Line and screaming and swearing violently and fiercely at people just for being white, with their small children right there to watch it. Being followed home by shady characters. Having homeless drunks sit in the atrium of my apartment, the laundry room, diving through dumpsters in the alley. At one point I remember it literally felt like a day could not go by without something messed up happening. I also watched a man attempt suicide by contemplating jumping off a building with S.W.A.T officers trying to talk him out of it. Another man jumped in front a train to kill himself on Valentine's Day.
I briefly dated a black man that worked as a high level security person. I literally had grown white men look me in the eye when we walked down the street together and call me a *****. I am currently dating a half white/half black man here and nothing like that EVER happens. People are quite kind to us and no one bats an eyelash.
I'm not saying NYC doesn't have issues... it's just not anywhere near on the same level. Chicago has well over 100,000 known gang members, and I suspect the real number is higher than that. Everyone knows about their corruption. Officers are paid off by aldermen to look the other way. The gangs pay the aldermen. It's a vicious cycle. I couldn't get out of there fast enough. 8 of my 15 cousins still live there. I don't know what they see in it other than being close to family. I'm relieved I left when I did.
Depends on how you measure residential segregation; NYC has a lot of mixed black-hispanic neighborhoods, and few almost all black neighborhood unlike Chicago. But neither city has many many mixed black-non hispanic white neighborhood.
The black and white areas of Chicago are more separated from each other than in NYC, where they are sometimes not that far apart and people travel between neighborhoods anyway.
Many guns are traced back to VA, NC, SC, GA in NYC. To put this in perspective, Canada blames it's gun crime on the US, and they have a fully guarded international border to protect them. The UK has guns showing up in London that have Russian origins. Chicago has a gang/drug problem with a ridiculously corrupt police force and political machine to boot. Chitown has been violent for decades but now all of the sudden it's an issue?
Canada would have a right to blame the U.S. for whatever illegal guns sneak across the border and get used in violent crime there...it's this country's blatant irresponsibility and "devil may care" attitude on the matter that is to blame. But levels of violent crime and gun deaths are still a joke in Canada compared to the US so lets not blow anything out of proportion or make it a huge big deal when it really isn't.
I don't see where you're going with your final statement there either. Are you implying they should just leave it that way? LOL.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
