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As a matter of fact 2 summers ago I was waiting for the 44 on Nostrand Ave and Fulton Street, this old lady was drinking a can of beer (no paper bag), talking to herself, looking very disheveled, and dancing in the street. This is like 6 PM on a weekday, it still has 149th Street-3rd Ave vibes around there
I'm just saying its not on any Park Slope level, at all
And? I pointed out things like the homeless person camped out in front of the supermarket that sells caviar. You get this type of weird juxtaposition all over NYC.
And? I pointed out things like the homeless person camped out in front of the supermarket that sells caviar. You get this type of weird juxtaposition all over NYC.
I'm just saying its not completely gentrified like Park Slope is. Fort Greene and Clinton Hill to me are like UWS. Bed-Stuy is like LES with more violent crime.
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Solidly gentrified? As in Park Slope solidly gentrified? I don't think so.
Park Slope isn't just gentrified--it's downright aristocratized. The nice parts of Bed-Stuy aren't on that level of gentrification, but then again, that's a really high bar.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but most of the crime in Bed-Stuy is outside of the areas I mentioned, and Bed-Stuy is a fairly large neighborhood. I get your analogy to UWS for Fort Green and Clinton Hill (at least for the parts south of Myrtle), though then I'd say the more reasonable comparison is Morningside Heights/West Harlem as an extension of the gentrification and a bit further out from the commercial core. LES seems like a different beast because it's so close to the commercial core and the large number of nightlife establishments and tourists sort of make for a very different flavor.
I think one part of Bed-Stuy that doesn't get talked about as much is the northwestern portion of it where a combination of Hasidic community and people looking for formerly cheaper rents in Brooklyn have been quickly moving into often new construction in this somewhat industrial part of the neighborhood. I have a friend living near the Myrtle-Willoughby G station near the Marcy Projects and the half-mile radius around that is one of the oddest hodge-podge of peoples, buildings, and shops you'll see that's seen some massive changes in a relatively short period of time. Just pre-pandemic I remember getting off of that stop and looking at the crush of other people getting off the stop and wondering what happened. Then when I got up above ground I saw the mass of new construction that's been happening there as well as conversion of older industrial buildings into what I presume are either purely residential or live-work lofts. The projects are still there as well as many of the industrial uses, but you also see a lot of Hasidic families including lots of kids wandering about seemingly unattended as well as people going into what look like pretty bougie bars and restaurants. Maybe that section is a bit more LES. I wouldn't be surprised if part of that was for cheaper digs within easy commute to Pratt or even NYU (either the downtown Brooklyn campus or the Greenwich Village campus). I reckon the gentrification would probably fly off the handles if they built an integrated J/M to G transfer stop where the Broadway G is directly underneath the J/M tracks (build that station and then close the neighboring and too close together Hewes and Lorimer stops).
As a side note, if ever CUNY had the funds from the state or from some private benefactor (as happened with Guttman), then a good place to site a new campus would be near the eastern edge of Bed-Stuy near Broadway Junction as CUNYs are generally commuter schools and that's a great location for a lot of outer borough residents to get to especially those who probably can greatly benefit from affordable higher education that isn't one of those junk private for-profit schools. Double bonus if that's in conjunction with a new solid high school affiliated with the CUNY as pretty much all the CUNY-affiliated schools do at least pretty well and often very well.
Last edited by OyCrumbler; 02-15-2021 at 02:12 PM..
Solidly gentrified on the level of Ft Greene- which is arguably gentrified. I’ve always maintained that the neighborhood (or large parts of it) would end up being more like Clinton Hill/Ft Greene- which makes sense given the location.
Seventh, You and I have debated our perceptions of Bed Stuy for a while and your POV and mine are not the same. But I’ll continue to give my POV as someone that not only lives here but grew up in an absurdly wealthy Westchester suburb- so I also have “that” perspective too.
I'll take your POV as someone who actually lives there. Seventh is in Far Rock. He might as well be on Mars.
I'll take your POV as someone who actually lives there. Seventh is in Far Rock. He might as well be on Mars.
Seventh isn't wrong--he's just using a different metric which is Park Slope level of bougie. What he says then is still accurate, but I don't think it makes sense to use that as a measuring stick because Park Slope is among the bougiest and wealthiest of neighborhoods.
Seventh isn't wrong--he's just using a different metric which is Park Slope level of bougie. What he says then is still accurate, but I don't think it makes sense to use that as a measuring stick because Park Slope is among the bougiest and wealthiest of neighborhoods.
Makes 0 sense to use Park Slope as a measuring stick. Park Slope was never the hood. It was always solidly middle class and in the last 20 years it's turned into a neighborhood for those who most would consider "rich". Lots of inherited wealth and 1% earners ($400K+ annual household income).
Makes 0 sense to use Park Slope as a measuring stick. Park Slope was never the hood. It was always solidly middle class and in the last 20 years it's turned into a neighborhood for those who most would consider "rich". Lots of inherited wealth and 1% earners ($400K+ annual household income).
Sure, I buy that, but what he's saying isn't inaccurate--neither Bed-Stuy nor Bushuck are Park Slope (or Brooklyn Heights and Cobble Hill) level of bougie-ness. That's just what it is, but people not familiar with the area might not be calibrated right might hear someone say Bed-Stuy is great (and I agree) and choosing among neighborhoods to live in and not realize that brownstone Brooklyn has some serious variation. I'm guessing you don't have that issue, but as a somewhat public forum, someone might wander into this topic looking for more info.
Sure, I buy that, but what he's saying isn't inaccurate--neither Bed-Stuy nor Bushuck are Park Slope (or Brooklyn Heights and Cobble Hill) level of bougie-ness. That's just what it is, but people not familiar with the area might not be calibrated right might hear someone say Bed-Stuy is great (and I agree) and choosing among neighborhoods to live in and not realize that brownstone Brooklyn has some serious variation. I'm guessing you don't have that issue, but as a somewhat public forum, someone might wander into this topic looking for more info.
Which is why when I give my opinion on BedStuy’s “gentrificationess” I include the background of “oh and btw, I grew up in second wealthiest town in the United States”. Not for bragging rights but to add context to what I think of as gentrified. That context is important. Gentrified does NOT mean ultra wealthy or bougie - trust me when I say I’ve seen ultra wealthy. Gentrified means the neighborhood, or in the case of BedStuy since it’s so massive, “sub neighborhood/sub section” has transformed from a lower income or working class area to an area of higher incomes (generally with individuals with higher education levels) and the businesses in the area have also transformed to serve the changed population.
Coffee shops are the cliche business but grocery stores are way more telling of how gentrified an area has become. Why? For one, low income areas are food deserts. 10 years ago the supermarkets in BedStuy were far and few and you’d hardly find high end, niche or specialized items in the ones that were around. I remember this one supermarket on Fulton that stunk- it was disgusting -and it was torn down years ago. Now? Not only are there many new grocery stores that stock and *sell out* of items like caviar but even the damn bodegas have remodeled and restocked to sell organic food and other specialty items to meet the demands of the changed demographic. When even the local bodegas become “Organic Markets”, your neighborhood is gentrified.
Oh, also considering that if you’re trying to compare to Park Slope, in addition to someone saying that park slope was never really the hood, Park Slope’s transformation is pushing 50 years. Am I wrong or did its transformation not start in the 70s? That is nearly 50 years for change. Bedstuy only really started changing 10-15 years ago.
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