Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Maybe no regulations is a bit extreme. However there are those that prefer as little government intervention as possible, but then call for the government to do something in situations as this, when it is indeed 100% the owner's responsbility to maintain the structure. The parking garage would not have been there if it was not approved to be built. The building has a Certificate of Occupancy. So the building was built to code. However, the owner is responsible for maintaining the structure.
However, I'll just stick to a more focal point. There were no complaints called in to 311 to report these cracks in the walls, or any calls to report any suspicion of structural deficiencies. Here is the complaint log:
No complaints reported since 2008, and out of all the complaints prior to this tragic incident, none for concern of the building structure itself.
If 311 was called, DOB would have come out there and inspected. NYC has over 1 million building structures, it's impossible to have enough inspectors to inspect them all. This is why people are encouraged to call 311 if they notice something out of ordinary, then DOB will come to inspect and issue violations/stop work orders/vacate orders as the situation warrants.
So in other words, you and Kefir made up the notion that “many people yammering for no regulations” (with a big NO in bold mind you). Because you can’t find any, now you have to back track on that statement.
The fact is that asking for less regulations particularly onerous ones and less red tape is not the same as asking for no regulations. If you can’t even see the difference then that’s on you.
So in other words, you and Kefir made up the notion that “many people yammering for no regulations” (with a big NO in bold mind you). Because you can’t find any, now you have to back track on that statement.
The fact is that asking for less regulations particularly onerous ones and less red tape is not the same as asking for no regulations. If you can’t even see the difference then that’s on you.
I thought we moved past the whole no regulations thing when I acknowledged it. What about the rest of my post?
__________________
"The man who sleeps on the floor, can never fall out of bed." -Martin Lawrence
I’m guessing a hundred year old building wasn’t originally built as a parking garage. If it wasn’t, why would anyone assume it could hold dozens of SUVs on its roof and floors?
I hope these brothers are forced to sell everything to pay off:
the estate of their dead employee,
the many others who were injured,
scores of auto insurance claims,
engineering feasibility studies from neighboring buildings to see if their foundations are still integral,
whatever fines the government chooses to assess
I’m guessing a hundred year old building wasn’t originally built as a parking garage. If it wasn’t, why would anyone assume it could hold dozens of SUVs on its roof and floors?
It was built as a parking garage, but it was not built to hold the weight of modern vehicles. .
Quote:
The structure was built in 1925, and was issued certificates of occupancy as a garage in 1926 and 1957. In each instance, the edifice was approved to operate as a garage for “more than five” automobiles per floor, and capacity for ten persons per floor.
Considerably more than five cars were present on the roof at the time of the collapse, images show. Automobiles today are also much heavier than older models, with bulky SUVs and pickup trucks now the dominant style of vehicle in America. Electric vehicles are even heavier, as the batteries add hundreds of pounds of weight to the load.
Go from a 2,000 pound gas powered vehicle to a 6,000 pound
battery operated vehicle and a battery operated SUV up to 12,000 pounds
and you are asking for trouble.
Where's Greta when you need her .................hahaha.
I thought we moved past the whole no regulations thing when I acknowledged it. What about the rest of my post?
The news reported open violations so I don’t know what your point is in trying to defend the garage. Clearly the DOB dropped the ball here. Like I said originally in this thread, if this is a case where the DOB is understaffed, then that is on the city. Far too long it has squandered money on all these social causes that has zero return on its investment. We’ve been housing the homeless to the tune of billions per year and yet the homeless never ends and seems only worse. Imagine how much infrastructure we could have fixed and even built new if that money was better used and that includes funding necessary critical departments like the DOB, DOT, etc.
The news reported open violations so I don’t know what your point is in trying to defend the garage. Clearly the DOB dropped the ball here. Like I said originally in this thread, if this is a case where the DOB is understaffed, then that is on the city. Far too long it has squandered money on all these social causes that has zero return on its investment. We’ve been housing the homeless to the tune of billions per year and yet the homeless never ends and seems only worse. Imagine how much infrastructure we could have fixed and even built new if that money was better used and that includes funding necessary critical departments like the DOB, DOT, etc.
It is not the DOB's job to maintain private property. It is incorrect to call a private commercial parking garage "infrastructure." Infrastructure applies to roads, bridges, sewers, etc. - basically public property, not private property.
The most recent violations were issued in 2014 - almost 10 years ago. The fact remains that from 2014 to now, no one called in any complaints. Whether it was a matter contrary to the CofO for exceeding occupancy or for structural issues, no one reported it for almost 10 years.
Another fact - there are over 1 million structures in the city (residential, commercial and industrial), varying in age and physical state. To conduct a yearly inspection of every building in this city would amount to almost 2,800 inspections a day. Any structure can collapse if it is not properly maintained, or exceeds its occupant load to a degree that would undermine its structural integrity. It is the owner's responsibility to maintain the structure and to use the structure as the CofO states.
__________________
"The man who sleeps on the floor, can never fall out of bed." -Martin Lawrence
It is not the DOB's job to maintain private property. It is incorrect to call a private commercial parking garage "infrastructure." Infrastructure applies to roads, bridges, sewers, etc. - basically public property, not private property.
The most recent violations were issued in 2014 - almost 10 years ago. The fact remains that from 2014 to now, no one called in any complaints. Whether it was a matter contrary to the CofO for exceeding occupancy or for structural issues, no one reported it for almost 10 years.
Another fact - there are over 1 million structures in the city (residential, commercial and industrial), varying in age and physical state. To conduct a yearly inspection of every building in this city would amount to almost 2,800 inspections a day. Any structure can collapse if it is not properly maintained, or exceeds its occupant load to a degree that would undermine its structural integrity. It is the owner's responsibility to maintain the structure and to use the structure as the CofO states.
True but there is no evidence the violations were ever actually corrected. It's like if you get a ticket for the brake lights on your car being out, you have two options. 1. Fix the brake lights and get the ticket dismissed. 2. Just pay the fine and continue driving the unsafe vehicle until you get another ticket.
It sounds like these owners elected to just pay the fines and leave the building unsafe. As for nobody calling and reporting the violations in the last 10 years, who is going to keep calling and reporting 20 year old violations, when the city doesn't do anything about it anyway? Probably not many people. So it's not surprising that there were no complaints in the last 10 years.
Quote:
Nearly 20 years ago, in late 2003, the owner of the Ann Street garage was cited for cracks and spalling of its concrete slabs and paid a penalty of $800, according to a summary of the violation. But the record does not indicate that the hazardous conditions were ever fixed.
In 2010, an engineer received a permit to do “general concrete and facade repairs” on the parking garage. That work was intended to cure four outstanding code violations, city records show. But one of those violations, classified as a type that must be corrected immediately, was still listed as open in the Buildings Department’s records on Wednesday.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
