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Interesting article from the Wall Street Journal. It appears many cities are losing a disportionate number of their African American residents and cultural institutions that were supported by African Americans - The End of White Flight - WSJ.com. There are several mentions of Brooklyn in the article that highlight certain situations that have occured from selling Ice Cream to a creation of a potentially segragated school to wanting tax dollars to go to a specific school. What are your thoughts on these situations and others that are mentioned in the article?
Once again, I think this has more to do with socio-economic class than race. My husband is a teacher and like the "mostly white" parents in the article, I have spoken up about the overuse of sugary snacks as fundraisers and rewards in his school in the Bronx - and I'm black.
It's so easy for the media to turn everything into black and white. Weren't there stats recently released that showed that the number of college grads in Brooklyn has increased? I think that is more telling than race.
Once again, I think this has more to do with socio-economic class than race. My husband is a teacher and like the "mostly white" parents in the article, I have spoken up about the overuse of sugary snacks as fundraisers and rewards in his school in the Bronx - and I'm black.
It's so easy for the media to turn everything into black and white. Weren't there stats recently released that showed that the number of college grads in Brooklyn has increased? I think that is more telling than race.
I understand about the sugary sweets thing since there is a problem with Type 2 Diabetes in the community that needs to be better addressed.
On the socio-economic thing, doesn't that end translating into race at some point? I'm not talking about people having personal prejudices or being racist, which I don't think is the issue. When you get into socio-economic issues, it has been fairly well reported that there is a gap in pay between the races as well as genders. With that, wouldn't a White family have a better socio-economic status then a Black family due to the pay gap?
Also, the thing about diverting your tax dollars to the school of your choice. Wouldn't that affect schools disportionately as if your family makes more money, then the school you divert your tax dollars to would be better off then the school that poorer students attend, financially that is? I know this is already happening as wealthier neighborhoods tend to have better schools so why increase the wealth of one school that is not in your neighborhood and decrease the wealth in your community school, thereby helping to increase the educational gap in your own community.
It's just the media trying to make something a race issue when in reality race really has nothing to do with it. Does the author of the article seriously think that the issue of churches closing is only affected by black folks? The Catholic church announces more and more closures every year. And the religious members of my family are complaining that the church pews are empty every Sunday and they are now in discussions with another church to merge. I agree with UpsonDowns, this is a socioeconomic issue more then anything.
It's also cheaper for me to live in the city and use public transportation as opposed to living in the 'burbs and maintaining a car.
iGlenn
(who sold his car and moved to the city in 2004 when gas got above $2/gal.
On the socio-economic thing, doesn't that end translating into race at some point? I'm not talking about people having personal prejudices or being racist, which I don't think is the issue. When you get into socio-economic issues, it has been fairly well reported that there is a gap in pay between the races as well as genders. With that, wouldn't a White family have a better socio-economic status then a Black family due to the pay gap?
Yes, but why turn it into a race issue? As if this doesn't affect poor white folks too? The fact is the cost of living in the city is increasing. Why couldn't they write the article about how much more expensive it is to live in the city and leave it at that?
I understand about the sugary sweets thing since there is a problem with Type 2 Diabetes in the community that needs to be better addressed.
On the socio-economic thing, doesn't that end translating into race at some point? I'm not talking about people having personal prejudices or being racist, which I don't think is the issue. When you get into socio-economic issues, it has been fairly well reported that there is a gap in pay between the races as well as genders. With that, wouldn't a White family have a better socio-economic status then a Black family due to the pay gap?
Also, the thing about diverting your tax dollars to the school of your choice. Wouldn't that affect schools disportionately as if your family makes more money, then the school you divert your tax dollars to would be better off then the school that poorer students attend, financially that is? I know this is already happening as wealthier neighborhoods tend to have better schools so why increase the wealth of one school that is not in your neighborhood and decrease the wealth in your community school, thereby helping to increase the educational gap in your own community.
I think diverting tax dollars away from certain schools is a conservative plot to undermine the very existence of public education.
But back to race vs. socio-economic class - Yes, a higher percentage of black people are in the lower classes. But not necessarily because they are black. There is simply less class mobility in America than we would like to believe. Therefore if you are born poor (as many blacks are), you are more likely to stay in poor. If your parents did not go to college or work a trade and your school is barely functioning, how do you learn to take advantage of opportunities to move up in life? How do you learn that these opportunities even exist?
Yes, as a black woman I am more likely to make less money for the same job as a white man, but if no one shows me the path to even obtain the training or education I need to even get an interview, the salary differential doesn't matter.
I think diverting tax dollars away from certain schools is a conservative plot to undermine the very existence of public education.
But back to race vs. socio-economic class - Yes, a higher percentage of black people are in the lower classes. But not necessarily because they are black. There is simply less class mobility in America than we would like to believe. Therefore if you are born poor (as many blacks are), you are more likely to stay in poor. If your parents did not go to college or work a trade and your school is barely functioning, how do you learn to take advantage of opportunities to move up in life? How do you learn that these opportunities even exist?
Yes, as a black woman I am more likely to make less money for the same job as a white man, but if no one shows me the path to even obtain the training or education I need to even get an interview, the salary differential doesn't matter.
I hear what you are saying but with the socio-economic status, I was not referring to poor blacks, or someone who is not making money due to not having the education or experience. From my understanding, you can have a similar educational experience, score the same or higher on tests that examine your educational level and still have a pay difference based on race or gender. With that, you would need to obtain a higher level of education and experience to somewhat close the gap. Not saying it is right or wrong but something that happens throughout the world, not just America.
As far as other ways to move up the socio-economic ladder, your parents, mentors or whomever need to be able to steer someone in the direction where they can experience the most success and also solidify whatever level of financial success they are after. It is fairly recent that more people are becoming aware of the stock market and other ways to help to increase wealth. It will be a long road for a lot of Blacks due to the mistrust that many of our ancestors have had with institutions. The road to the middle class was helped a lot by the GI Bill as it helped to create generations of people who have been in the middle class and have obtained higher standards and salaries as compared to their parents. Historically, this has not been the case for Blacks since the GI Bill did not help Blacks as much, even though, on paper, the opportunity was there. Saying that, a lot of Blacks are in the beginning generations of that attainment and it will take sometime for it to be a comparable situation.
Aside from that, what I basically got from the article was the concern of the disappearance of Black establishments and cultural institutions from the city landscape since Blacks tend to be the ones who frequent the establishments. Not viewing it as a racial thing but more of losing something from the city that is valuable. Historically, I am aware that changing neighborhood demographics have happened before. I used to live in Bushwick many years ago and it went from a White neighborhood to a Black neighborhood, to now I believe a predominately Dominican neighborhood. When I was born in Brownsville, my parents tell me it was a Jewish neighborhood, as well as where I live now in Crown Heights. Be that as it may, in this day and age, I feel a distinct sadness when cities or neighborhoods lose their flavor as everything becomes more and more generic, as I believe the mayor of San Francisco was discussing. And when I say lose their flavor, I don't necessarily mean Black flavor but ethnic flavor, whatever that ethnicity is.
I definitely hear you on the loss of all sorts of ethnic flavor. I miss the great salamis I used to get at the various Polish delis in the East Village. That's why I try to buy local and non-chain. But I think that's a class issue too.
We can already see this happening in places that are experiencing demographics shifts...Harlem, Washington Heights, East Village and finally the fully "liberated" daddy of them all: Williamsburg.
Although I think that has more to do with native Manhattanites being priced out of their traditional locales and hipster transplants from New Hampshire, Nebraska, etc converging on particular nabes.
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