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What bothers people more the fact that southern states have paid incentives to attract major employers or the fact that the northern states didn't/won't pay these incentives? We can argue all day but for now the southern states have a more cost efficent work force who are not exploited (as some would think), tax incentives from the host state and a viable infastructure. Perhaps in time it will change again and who knows Buffalo may rise again but a lot of change will need to occure first.
Both Buffalo, other upstate cities, and Albany have not seriously gone out of their way to recruit major industries. And I do think some people upstate are too provincial. I remember people in Ithaca complaining about the Pyramid mall, because it had major chains and not local business.
The problem is, a typical local business is going to be crap. If you want to make more than a poverty wage, you need major corporate employers in the area. There doesn't seem to be much concept of this upstate though.
For example, Buffalo has attracted some back office work from NYC, in the insurance and banking industries. It could and should try to do even more of this. It would be hard to survive off the bottom paying banking jobs in NYC, but one could get by quite nicely on this in Buffalo.
There are a few other things killing upstate NY. The weather. In order to get upstate New York going, you'd have to get people with money and skill to move to upstate NY. But the winters are just absolutely horrible. The other thing is access. If business people have to fly to other major cities, like LA, DC, or go overseas, its just better to be downstate close to NYC's major international airports, particularly JFK and Newark.
I always thought this also may have had to do with population decline in Upstate NY. Although weather is subjective, winters are a major con for Upstate NY. It's not the cold temperatures necessarily, but the consistant cloudiness during the colder months. I say this in all my posts, take Seattle winters and add freezing temperatures and snow and you get Upstate NY winters. Most people can't handle that much gloominess (not to mention it can cause vitamin D deficiency), and for people who don't mind gloominess they would probably prefer the PNW where the temperatures are milder.
Since you can't change weather, Upstate NY needs to take great means to make itself attractive for people to move in and retain its population. That is why I thought they can do well by establishing a permanent white collar industry, revitalization of rough areas in the cities, and summer tourism.
You get used to the weather. Is it a bit gray? Perhaps. However, I love the gray skies. I also love snow. If it is going to be cold, there may as well be snow. Nothing is more depressing than gray, cold but no snow. At least with the snow you can do stuff. The real estate is incredibly cheap in some areas. I mean where else can you buy housing for about $100K and LOTS of space?
You get used to the weather. Is it a bit gray? Perhaps. However, I love the gray skies. I also love snow. If it is going to be cold, there may as well be snow. Nothing is more depressing than gray, cold but no snow. At least with the snow you can do stuff. The real estate is incredibly cheap in some areas. I mean where else can you buy housing for about $100K and LOTS of space?
Well, yeah. You get used to the weather. However, people aren't generally looking to get used to crappy weather :lol:
I think that reaction in Ithaca has to be put into perspective, given the vibe of the city/area. It is all about self sustaining in various aspects. So, instead of necessarily being provincial, it is an area or city(really), that seems to be immovable in regards to keeping things local.
Also, to say that Upstate NY doesn't get such jobs is not true. For instance, the Central NY region has the second biggest risk management/insurance industry east of the Mississippi River, with assuming that the Hartford CT area being first. Many of those companies are local as well.
Upstate NY needs to get back to initiating business and innovation. People need to be reminded that Kodak, Carrier and Woolworth's were started in Upstate NY and by Upstate NYers. I think about the many department stores that were local in Upstate NY markets and one industry I think could be one to look at is the fashion industry. I'm not talking about runway model fashion necessarily, but areas like Pittsburgh and Columbus have fashion industries that are viewed in a serious light. I've always thought that the Fashion Design Department at Syracuse University could use the former Addis Company building as a fashion incubator/boutique using the designs of students. This could also involve other area colleges and even HS students with such interests, to work there in terms of internship/employment. This is what I was getting at when I asked the question and I believe that other Upstate areas could do the same or similar things with other industries/academic departments.
Last edited by ckhthankgod; 01-21-2013 at 11:21 AM..
Upstate NY's heyday is post WW2, particularly when the US was pretty much the only industrial nation around. Europe and Japan were bombed up from WW2.
When Japan got online with steel, that hit US steel manufacturing hard. That in turn hit upstate pretty hard.
What's left is the mostly post industrial NY. To the extend we have industrial expansion, its often in the South or West.
I don't think you can ever put it back as it was.
Truthfully, NYC isn't what it was, industrial losses caused NYC to lose one million jobs. NYC promoted tourism, its universities, and gave tax credits to film and television production. Wall Street/Finance/Banking of course remained in the city, and a lot of people come here because of our hospitals. NYC had to go through drastic restructuring in the post industrial area.
Upstate NY has lots of great universities (I went to Cornell). Perhaps it should promote tourism more as well. You can have skiing in the winter and lots of nice outdoor stuff in the summer. And expand more on its insurance business and risk management. And I do agree with you about business innovation, more of what will simply have to be done.
Upstate NY's heyday is post WW2, particularly when the US was pretty much the only industrial nation around. Europe and Japan were bombed up from WW2.
When Japan got online with steel, that hit US steel manufacturing hard. That in turn hit upstate pretty hard.
What's left is the mostly post industrial NY. To the extend we have industrial expansion, its often in the South or West.
I don't think you can ever put it back as it was.
Truthfully, NYC isn't what it was, industrial losses caused NYC to lose one million jobs. NYC promoted tourism, its universities, and gave tax credits to film and television production. Wall Street/Finance/Banking of course remained in the city, and a lot of people come here because of our hospitals. NYC had to go through drastic restructuring in the post industrial area.
Upstate NY has lots of great universities (I went to Cornell). Perhaps it should promote tourism more as well. You can have skiing in the winter and lots of nice outdoor stuff in the summer. And expand more on its insurance business and risk management. And I do agree with you about business innovation, more of what will simply have to be done.
There are some engineering jobs as well at places like NY Air Brake, Fulton, Raymond Corporation, Syracuse Research, M.S. Kennedy, Carrier, Novalis, Sensis/SAAB, Lockheed Martin, Corning Inc. and Inficon, among others. There is some small scale manufacturing as well. Here are a couple of examples: Young & Franklin / Tactair Careers
There are some engineering jobs as well at places like NY Air Brake, Fulton, Raymond Corporation, Syracuse Research, M.S. Kennedy, Carrier, Novalis, Sensis/SAAB, Lockheed Martin, Corning Inc. and Inficon, among others. There is some small scale manufacturing as well. Here are a couple of examples: Young & Franklin / Tactair Careers
Perhaps these jobs, along with insurance, the wine industry, the rest of agriculture, and education would say upstate has found its niche. Its not what it was in the 1950s, but neither is NYC itself. Things change.
Since you can't change weather, Upstate NY needs to take great means to make itself attractive for people to move in and retain its population. That is why I thought they can do well by establishing a permanent white collar industry, revitalization of rough areas in the cities, and summer tourism.
Upstate has been doing this. In Rochester places like Kodak are not longer part of any conversation while more focus has been on white collar jobs. Tourism in places such as the finger lakes has been growing for years. I come across many out of staters while on wine tours. There has also been some smaller scale gentrification. Change won't happen overnight, but it is happening.
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