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Status:
"Let this year be over..."
(set 20 days ago)
Location: Where my bills arrive
19,219 posts, read 17,085,392 times
Reputation: 15538
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NyWriterdude
The world doesn't revolve around you either and that's something you fail to recognize as you and some are so desperate to say the South is paradise.
You can't admit states like Florida generally appeal only to a certain demographic.
And by the way having more people does not necessarily mean that a place is getting better.
California has 40 million people but is having an environmental crisis as the state's natural environment cannot support the water demands of the populace (including agriculture in it's current form).
I love NY, but even I wouldn't want to NYC to have an influx of poor people in large numbers. It'd be very bad for the city and state. Fortunately the high prices here insure that doesn't happen.
I'm not claiming that New York is the best place for everyone in the world. I think it's good for certain people, and there are certain types of people who just like either cold weather or big city living (in the case of NYC), and that's separate for people wanting to be in NY for their careers or because we have a number of leading academic institutions.
People have plenty of considerations of where they want to live outside TAXES, which are going up in North Carolina thanks to those poor elderly people moving in.
My preferences for living have not been brought up by me, the only reference I have made to the south was for retirees who perceive it is a better choice for them. I don't criticize those that live where they do, even you.
My view on Florida was it had a larger infrastructure to support retirees as they age, that's it.
California to me is a breakfast cereal Fruit & Nuts, full of flakes just shake & bake...
I never mentioned it.
As for the immigrant influx into NYC I suggest you avoid the other boroughs, they are there already in large numbers.
You say you don't claim NY is the best for everyone but you condemn every one who isn't there or in a career you deem worthy. Heads up there are great educational institutes in other places also.
My preferences for living have not been brought up by me, the only reference I have made to the south was for retirees who perceive it is a better choice for them. I don't criticize those that live where they do, even you.
My view on Florida was it had a larger infrastructure to support retirees as they age, that's it.
California to me is a breakfast cereal Fruit & Nuts, full of flakes just shake & bake...
I never mentioned it.
As for the immigrant influx into NYC I suggest you avoid the other boroughs, they are there already in large numbers.
You say you don't claim NY is the best for everyone but you condemn every one who isn't there or in a career you deem worthy. Heads up there are great educational institutes in other places also.
NYC has always had a lot of immigrants. With that said big parts of Brooklyn and Queens are too expensive for most immigrants these days. They tend to move further and further out, and now that people in housing projects increasingly have to work there's a lot of competition for low end jobs in NY. It's not that easy to move here as an immigrant unless you are a wealthy one OR unless you have family support. A poor immigrant isn't going to be able to rent an apartment or buy anything, at best they can live in some basement or live 50 people to a single family house.
I do not condemn everyone who isn't in NY. Not at all.
I do condemn people who claim it's the answer to the problems of everyone in the world.
I also think it's false advertising not to disclose that the people leaving NY for Florida are disproportionately retirees and disproportionately poor. These people may very well have valid reasons for making their move, but that doesn't mean that move is the best for all New Yorkers.
Also the crowd here just likes to post about New Yorkers who moved to the South and lived happily ever after. That's true of some people yes. Others moved and hated it as that is a very difficult adjustment for some people. And there are a number of people who moved because they had no other choice (financial reasons). But of course entertaining the idea of not all people who made the move feel the same way about their life after their move would get in the way of right wing propaganda that any supposedly low tax state is heaven on earth (never mind that NC raised taxes on certain types of retirement income.
I will say that I do not post on other states forums about how great New York is and how people should come from that state to NY.
It really does make me feel that there's a certain amount of envy and jealousy, and perhaps even regret from those who left NY but continue to post on the NY forum . If you really are that happy where you are you should move on entirely from NY and post about issues in the state you love so much.
IF. But in a number of cases that isn't always the case.
Alabama's chief justice ordered probate judges to ignore a federal court ruling. That was 2015.
A few years ago Alabama and Georgia passed anti immigrant laws that were overturned by the supreme court.
The NY Times and other articles on Florida's population growth cited large numbers of retirees moving to Florida, along with immigration as factors in the Florida's population growth. These things are CURRENT.
Btw I am not posting on this forum to keep people like you VintageSunlight entertained. Don't flatter yourself.
Enjoy the retirees. And the ghetto people from Northern cities moving in.
I now live in the south, but I'm not retired, I'm not poor, and I find your comments increasingly wearily banal.
At such a young age, surely you have more to occupy your life than arguing the same limited opinion over and over.
Maybe find a nice guy who'll pay, and go out on a date or something instead? Heck, I'm almost ready to fund it!
Location: Westchester County, NY -> Pinellas County, FL -> Dutchess County, NY -> Denver?
348 posts, read 535,416 times
Reputation: 349
Quote:
Originally Posted by MinkeyM
I now live in the south, but I'm not retired, I'm not poor, and I find your comments increasingly wearily banal.
At such a young age, surely you have more to occupy your life than arguing the same limited opinion over and over.
Maybe find a nice guy who'll pay, and go out on a date or something instead? Heck, I'm almost ready to fund it!
He sounds very limited and prejudice. He's better keep his views to himself.
You don't have rich Wall Streeters, top academics, people from Madison Avenue, or A list theatre or film industry people leaving NYC for the South.
You have retirees and the poor.
In your very narrow view you are fairly correct. If your career depends on an ecosystem or infrastructure based upon location then of course you will be in that location.
Let's look at one of your assertions though - rich Wall Streeters.
At one time, all of the data centers of the exchanges were located on Wall St. Due to increasing costs, lack of redundancy, and lack of physical space they're all now in NJ. Most of those supporting jobs - which while not making people "rich" certainly were largely 6-figure jobs - are now in NJ rather than NY.
Hedge funds are increasingly being located elsewhere, especially in CT or Long Island, because they don't need to have physical proximity to the exchanges (but want to be close enough to visit investors).
Flash trading companies need to co-locate, so many of them are located in NJ now.
These do represent a small amount of the total # of jobs, and of course 50% of wealth in NYC is generated from Wall Street (with around 15% of the jobs so they pay disproportionately well).
While the US dollar is the world's reserve currency, and while the NY financial markets lead the world then there is little short-term risk to Wall Street and NYC. People flock to Wall St. BECAUSE it's Wall St.
If you have a job dependent on Wall St. you will also remain in proximity to it.
I think your view of Madison Ave. is becoming a bit dated though. While the big agencies are still located there, many workers are able to work remotely and many boutique firms are opening up outside of NYC. Much less Mad Men these days.
You admit you're an urban person, and obviously love living in NYC. Either you're wealthy enough to take advantage of everything it offers, or aren't and don't care. Urban hipsters sharing rental apartments in lower Manhattan or Brooklyn in their 20's and early 30's without kids don't have to worry about things like schools, affordable daycare, cost of living and so on. Most also don't make enough to realize that the tax burden of NY State and NYC is onerous, and outside of NYC proper the property taxes are excessive.
For those that do need to care, and who don't make > $500K a year, and (most importantly) aren't tied to those handful of occupations you state, moving outside of NYC becomes increasingly compelling. Those with family will often relocate to the suburbs. Or, (gasp) move to points South or West.
I'm 3 hours from NYC - just by plane rather than train - and I look forward to visiting again sometime this year and soaking in the culture and restaurants. Based upon my calculation I can use some of the approximate $20K-30K I pocket by not living in NYC to spend as a tourist.
Last edited by markjames68; 04-11-2015 at 09:30 AM..
I now live in the south, but I'm not retired, I'm not poor, and I find your comments increasingly wearily banal.
At such a young age, surely you have more to occupy your life than arguing the same limited opinion over and over.
Maybe find a nice guy who'll pay, and go out on a date or something instead? Heck, I'm almost ready to fund it!
I grew up in a small town, and my whole world view was of that place before I relocated. I've lived in several "world cities" over the past 25 years, and realize that I was very sheltered growing up.
I hear the same kind of view from people in New York, particularly Long Islanders who have rarely left LI. They love the proximity to NY but don't enjoy it very much. They can't imagining living somewhere where the bagels and pizza aren't the same as "home". Fair enough, because that's their view of life and what's important to them.
I also don't begrudge people for sticking up for NY or NYC. NYC is definitely an incredible city (so is Paris, London, Sydney and Hong Kong too in their own way, as are others). Broadway only exists in NYC, so if that's important then nothing's better. Wall Street only exists in NYC, so ditto.
Where I laugh is when people with clearly little other experience tell others that a city is "the best" because it's "the best", a circular argument. It might be the best for them, but it might not be for others, and if you haven't experienced elsewhere how can you truly know?
Back to the original topic - "If New York State is so bad, why do we live here" - the answer is that familial ties, job ties or social reasons (culture, generous benefits) are the reason why people live in NY. If your family leaves, your job leaves, and you realize that you can't afford to pay for your house (or want more than what you currently can afford) you will leave NY.
I also think it's false advertising not to disclose that the people leaving NY for Florida are disproportionately retirees and disproportionately poor.
Actually, I'm seeing many mid-career people relocating, especially those with portable, 6-figure jobs. If you like Florida, and can make the same $ as NY by living in Tampa or Miami, why not? Same goes for NC, SC, TX, AZ or any other state.
"New Yorkers have long retired to the warmth and ease of the Florida coast, but eyebrow-raising numbers show that in recent years, most of those moving from the Empire State to the Sunshine State have been going there to find work.
Florida remains the top destination for outbound New Yorkers, but the new migrants are a lot younger than you’d expect.
According to the five-year American Community Survey, which the U.S. Census conducted from 2007 to 2011, 78% of the people who migrated from New York to Florida in those years were under age 60. The ages with the highest proportions of migrants to Florida were 18, 19, 21, 24, 28, 40 and 55.
Even leaving out the 18- and 19-year olds, many of whom are probably college students, that’s a lot of early retirees, and an astonishing number of young workers.
Even the numbers of New Yorkers moving to Florida in their late 30s and mid 40s aren’t much lower than the number of retirees moving at the end of their careers.
This means that an increasing number of New Yorkers either can’t afford to remain in their home state or can’t find work there — and are thus moving to states with friendlier business climates to find it."
One area where I do agree with you is that there are always people who move to Florida (or some other state) expecting it to be a panacea for all their ills. A change of location without a corresponding reset of expectations will often lead to disappointment.
Actually, I'm seeing many mid-career people relocating, especially those with portable, 6-figure jobs. If you like Florida, and can make the same $ as NY by living in Tampa or Miami, why not? Same goes for NC, SC, TX, AZ or any other state.
"New Yorkers have long retired to the warmth and ease of the Florida coast, but eyebrow-raising numbers show that in recent years, most of those moving from the Empire State to the Sunshine State have been going there to find work.
Florida remains the top destination for outbound New Yorkers, but the new migrants are a lot younger than you’d expect.
According to the five-year American Community Survey, which the U.S. Census conducted from 2007 to 2011, 78% of the people who migrated from New York to Florida in those years were under age 60. The ages with the highest proportions of migrants to Florida were 18, 19, 21, 24, 28, 40 and 55.
Even leaving out the 18- and 19-year olds, many of whom are probably college students, that’s a lot of early retirees, and an astonishing number of young workers.
Even the numbers of New Yorkers moving to Florida in their late 30s and mid 40s aren’t much lower than the number of retirees moving at the end of their careers.
This means that an increasing number of New Yorkers either can’t afford to remain in their home state or can’t find work there — and are thus moving to states with friendlier business climates to find it."
One area where I do agree with you is that there are always people who move to Florida (or some other state) expecting it to be a panacea for all their ills. A change of location without a corresponding reset of expectations will often lead to disappointment.
Some of those people move to FL for strictly tax reasons similar to what Tom Golisano did. He claimed residency there for at least partially that reason.
Again, you can move to another state and still be in the NYC metro. So, that also has to be considered, as most major metros in the US are contained within the same state except for NYC, Philadelphia, Chicago, DC, the Twin Cities and Boston. When I say major I'm thinking about top 20-25 areas.
I now live in the south, but I'm not retired, I'm not poor, and I find your comments increasingly wearily banal.
At such a young age, surely you have more to occupy your life than arguing the same limited opinion over and over.
Maybe find a nice guy who'll pay, and go out on a date or something instead? Heck, I'm almost ready to fund it!
Don't worry about my affairs. On topic please!
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And the ghetto people from Northern cities moving in.
