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I truly appreciate all of the perspectives on this. It looks like there's generally consensus that getting one sibling something and not getting the other something is inconsiderate. Ideally, they should all get a present from me or none of them should. In getting some objective feedback here, I will be more conscious of that if I return to gift giving in the future. I also really like the idea of just setting some money aside annually for Christmas/Birthdays and then handing it over when they go off to school/move out/major rite of passage. I also liked the idea of an etiquette book, but that would raise some real drama and I really do not want to engage with any more drama.
It is also true that "not remembering" is a convenient out - like saying I don't have time. If you want to make time/remember, you just do. Some personal values come into our approach to different "holidays". To me, my birthday was something special that I shared primarily with my mother. In my early twenties, I started buying her a present/flowers, calling her to say thanks, etc. But she is gone and, for the most part, only my immediate family (SO, little sister who lived with me, etc.), does anything for my birthday. And I'm happy with that. And, growing up, my aunts and uncles never remembered my birthday. And I never mentioned it. It wasn't an expectation I had. If my mother had forgotten my birthday, that would have hurt, though.
Speaking of which:
Quote:
Originally Posted by cyberphonics
Correlating having your birthday remembered or receiving a gift with how much someone cares about you or how much you're worth is a learned value. You don't pop out of the womb wanting a card for having done so. These are values we instill by example and by the treatment of these things as "mandatory".
...so true. I asked these questions to see if it's a culturally normal expectation that my sister and her daughter have, but that's the root of the issue. Some of us don't think that receiving a gift denotes an other's level of appreciation. I've never considered calling my sister out on not sending gifts for my birthday or for my younger sister's birthday, etc. I think it would be a rude devaluation of the relationship, which stands away from any exchange of material goods.
And, to this point, it was never important that I buy birthday presents for my sister's children. As mentioned previously, if the expectation were based on my historical patterns, then they already knew not to expect a birthday gift. This is the first time I can recall her reminding me that they had a birthday coming up. And she did say she would get her daughter a present on my behalf and I had said I would reimburse her, but obviously she didn't, and I clearly didn't follow up to check.
So, honestly, in this particular situation, there are some confounding factors and, as a PP said, this actually does have more to do with my relationship with my sister than my relationship with her kids. My relationship with my sister strongly affects my relationship with her kids, but I would hazard a guess that my relationship with them would be much better if my relationship with her were better.
What I really wanted to see, though, was how you would see this situation isolated from those factors (e.g., sister reminds me with 2 days notice to get her daughter a gift -> gives me 3 weeks notice to get her baby a gift -> daughter doesn't get a gift, but baby does -> niece "shares feelings" about not getting a gift).
At this point, I don't plan to follow up with the sister or her daughter and buy her a belated present because I was bullied ("last words") or guilted. But, again, I will make a point of being more equitable if I resume any sort of gift exchange in the future. Though that's somewhat doubtful.
I cannot stand being pressured into playing a certain kind of role. For years, I've watched my sister use her kids as currency - when they were young and our parents were still alive, she would threaten my parents if they disagreed with her, "Well fine! You'll never see your grandkids again!" And then she got mad at our other sister and pulled the, "You'll just never see your niece and nephew again" and so forth. Her kids have been the casualties of numerous arguments she's had with others and I've never wanted to invest much in my relationship with them knowing that it would be used against me in an instant. At various times, her kids have lived with other relatives - while she was in rehab, etc - and none of them have been permitted to stay in touch. The kids are currently in foster care and she only sees them for short visitations and now, sees her daughter on the weekends. It's a wreck from my perspective. It's hard to say what the relationship/gift giving, etc. would look like absent that context.
There's almost no way to keep track of it all, but this, too, is a "convenient out". In fact, if I wanted to make the effort, I could. On the one hand, their instability would be all the more reason to try to be a stable presence in their lives, but I've refused for years to invest a lot in my relationship with her and, thus, with them. When they come to visit, I can sense their entitlement and amusement. We have a lot of "big kid" toys like boat, hot tub, horses, and at times we had jet skis, 4 wheelers, etc. They all come and act like they're at a resort and we should serve them. They make themselves "at home" while, from my perspective, treating us not like "hosts" but like servants. And when I have asked her kids to clean up after themselves, close the door behind them, etc., or especially to not do something (e.g., not play with that figurine on the coffee table), her daughter will look at me and smile while she does it. It's revolting. I don't like having them visit. I'm pregnant and don't want my kid to be around her or them, etc. The truth is, if I were altruistic, I would send them gifts, letters of support and encouragement, but I'm not that altruistic. Not that invested in her life or theirs because to me it is completely overwhelming and, again, revolting.
But the other side to this is that I do have other relatives and friends that I sincerely value and adore and I haven't made their birthdays a priority, either. If I see something that I think they would like, I'll buy it and give it to them with giddy excitement whether it's a birthday, holiday, or any other day. It's a celebration of them. I do think that gifts can serve as a token of your appreciation for someone, but primarily if it expresses your knowledge of them or something you share. Otherwise, it's just some junk they received out of obligation built by a voracious consumer culture. A little holiday buffet of gluttony.
Again, I thank you all for your thoughtful and sometimes, ehm, passionate replies, whether you agreed with me or not. It is helpful in processing the bigger meaning of gifts, relationships, and, for me, processing some of the mixed feelings I have about the pressure to "unconditionally love" your blood relatives. That's another value mixed in there. And while on the one hand I'd say gifts are not a token of love, they also very well can be. But I think genuine love and appreciation come from actually knowing someone, and I don't really "know" my sister's kids. The gifts that I sent them have been hollow. And so the "tradition" of sending them is a form labor. It's really thought-provoking and each of your points have been... poignant.
So, CD. Is it the norm in most families for aunts and uncles to buy birthday gifts? Would you be proud if your child if they contacted a relative and shared their disappointment at not receiving a gift? Would you be offended if the relative announced an end to the focus on gift exchanges?
I sent them gifts until they stopped thanking me for them. In my family, we were raised that you send a thank-you note when someone from out of town sends you a gift. One of my sisters used to hold the pen in her child's hand and sign the cards together. So sweet to receive those cards!
The other never bothered, and once the kids were old enough to know better and took gifts for granted, I just stopped sending them. One of them did complain, and I reminded her that gifts are just that--gifts. They are not obligations or responsibilities. They are voluntary on the part of the giver, and if the giver deems the gifts unappreciated, as a lack of gratitude would imply, the giver is free to refrain from giving gifts.
That's the high-falutin' answer. The down-to-earth answer is no one owes anyone a gift for any reason, and your sister's manipulation of her own kid to attempt gift extortion is pretty disgusting and cheap.
I use to plan a special day or event that we would both enjoy and make some lasting memories.
This has become all but impossible because the kids are so involved with sports, school, church it simply leaves no time... short notice or planning months in ahead makes no difference.
That said, I never forget a birthday or Christmas ever... when they were very young, I would give each a US $5 gold coin...
As they got older the parents didn't want the responsibility for the coins so I started giving cash... sometimes it would be $50 in quarters or $50 in $2 bills or some combination...
The $2 bills have been a real favorite because every time the spend one people comment and they say it was a birthday/Christmas present!
At times, I can't be there for the event... without fail, the next time we meet, they get their gift...
All the kids are really appreciative and never expect...
One year, their school was doing a fund raiser for homeless children...
Two of my nieces asked if I "Was" going to give them a Christmas present if it would be OK for them to use it to help homeless kids...
It is something I like and the bunch of them are all good kids...
Plus, I like the fact the teenagers still know what I gave them when they were infants... how many can say that...
Those gold coins started at $37.50 each and were pushing $200 at one time... depending on the price of gold...
If they decide to sell that is ok too... it's a gift.
I have two children and eight nieces & nephews (all now adults) and seven grand-nieces and nephews. My family never really got into giving either birthday or Christmas gifts to each other or our children unless we attended a birthday party or a specific celebration (such as Christmas at my sister's house when her children were preschoolers).
Occasionally I would send "just because" gifts (ie. if I see something that someone would really enjoy I send it to then "just because they would really enjoy it".
BTW Everyone in my family, both adults and children, almost always sends written thank you notes when they receive a gift. If they don't send a written note they will email or call with a thank you. So I guess that we are real oddballs, we rarely give gifts but when we do we always receive a thank you.
I don't have children and I am not very good with them. I am okay with seeing my nieces once a year (14 and 12 years old).
However, sending a gift on birthdays and christmas is MANDATORY. I don't remember birthdays either, but my computer does. Calendars do also.
About $300/year go to my nieces as gifts. That's just how it is.
I think your sister is reasonable and you should be a better aunt (uncle?)
It is different with gifts for adults. I don't give gifts anymore (much to my parents dismay)
Remember when you were a child and just loved getting gifts? Just think back and what if you dont get a gift from an uncle but your sibling does - how can that NOT be devastating to a child?
I can't express how strongly I DISAGREE with the comment above. First of all, no "gift" is mandatory. The very definition of the word is "something given willingly without payment." It's mandatory, per formal etiquette, that one respond to a written invitation to a party, but other than that, it's up to the giver what should be presented to whom and when. And, needless to say, a two-day-in-advance phone call with a demand to donate does not qualify as an invitation. When I was growing up I never received a birthday OR Christmas gift from any of my MANY aunts and uncles. My grandparents bought me a gift, but they were always invited to our home for dinner on a child's birthday and for Christmas. (We didn't have the kind of parties kids have today.)
I think the OP does make a mistake in being sporadic with gifts. Greedy parents aside, young children DON'T understand why they got a gift one year and not another year or why the baby got three gifts and they got none. (Although I wouldn't go so far as calling it "devastating." More like they'll just think auntie is a dope.)
I have no children of my own, so I have always been generous with nieces and nephews. Perhaps too much so, since they take it for granted at this point. I give birthday, Christmas, and graduation gifts. Because each has a sibling, I always made a practice of sending the non-celebrant a wrapped gift, too, along with the birthday present. For the sole purpose of avoiding hurt feelings and acting out. A big gift for the birthday child, a smaller gift for the sibling. On Christmas they get gifts of equal value but I try hard to pick out things I think they would like.
One of my sistesr-in-law addresses the issue another way, one I wish I had thought of. She sends NO birthday gifts or cards. When she visits in person (which happens maybe once every 2-4 years, she consults with the mother, goes shopping in town, and gets the child a gift she presents in person. At Christmas she sends each child a gift card. Simple, no? The children accept it completely as just the way this person does things. I don't get extra credit for buying more.
When I formally retire in the future, I have every intention of having a sit-down with my siblings about gifts. I'm going to propose a complete moratorium on gift giving. We adults don't need things and I won't be able to afford my usual stream of giving to the children (which now includes children's children) when I am on a retirement income.
And one more thing. I'm assuming the OP is a woman. Would the sister in question demand that her daughter's UNCLES provide the kind of attention she expects the aunt to provide? If not, why not? I notice that my brothers are always off the hook when it comes to gift giving. They're not even chauvinists in general, yet they expect their wives to do all the gift buying, wrapping, and mailing. I have one brother who buys and mails his own cards. They're always late, but at least he does it. But gifts, never. I even remember a brother asking me once, "What did my wife get you for Christmas?" Seriously.
I don't have children and I am not very good with them. I am okay with seeing my nieces once a year (14 and 12 years old).
However, sending a gift on birthdays and christmas is MANDATORY. I don't remember birthdays either, but my computer does. Calendars do also.
About $300/year go to my nieces as gifts. That's just how it is.
I think your sister is reasonable and you should be a better aunt (uncle?)
It is different with gifts for adults. I don't give gifts anymore (much to my parents dismay)
Remember when you were a child and just loved getting gifts? Just think back and what if you dont get a gift from an uncle but your sibling does - how can that NOT be devastating to a child?
Bull ****. No one is obligated to buy relatives gifts. My aunts and uncles never bought me birthday presents and I don't think any less of them for it; it never entered my mind that they would buy me a present. I remember an aunt making some of my favorite dishes, I remember an uncle taking me fishing--that is what is important.
I used to give cards and birthday wishes to my cousins who live in another state, im not wealthy at all but buy thifty, and the past several holidays i quit giving out so many cards, most my cousins dont even think to send me a card back on my birthday or even xmas, except a few of them have once or twice over a 12 yr period, is it awful to even be aknowledged by my family, these are adult cousins past their 20's im speaking about. This last xmas i sent out nothing and only one cousin realized it, she sent me something for xmas. Is a card too much to ask for ? A thank you?
So, CD. Is it the norm in most families for aunts and uncles to buy birthday gifts? Would you be proud if your child if they contacted a relative and shared their disappointment at not receiving a gift? Would you be offended if the relative announced an end to the focus on gift exchanges?
I usually give my nieces & nephews small symbolic gifts for their birthdays and Chanukah. But for my oldest niece's Bat Mitzva I gave a more substantial gift and plan on doing so for my second niece who will have her formal celebration in the summer. I will do for the others when their turn comes. That being said I don't think it is appropriate for a child to expect a gift and to contact a relative to complain that they didn't receive one.
I agree when i was a kid i once received a magazine subscription from my uncle and aunt i loved they remembered my b day, but my mom never instilled in me to write a thank you note but years later i wrote an zmas card to them to my surprise they sent me a xmas card back, they were such lovely people, i do miss them. They are both passed now but i try and remember their thoughtfulness. I hope in time u r thought of so warmly
I don't understand - she said that she would just get a present for her daughter and tell her it was from you. Why did she decide against that, and not only NOT do it, but put her daughter up to an awkward and rude shakedown?
If you choose not to remember birthdays, that's your business. I have two neices (same parents) who NEVER wrote a thank-you note. At age 13, I stopped sending birthday checks. My in-law called me a week later (unusually) and happened to "mention" that I had forgotten to include a check with the birthday card. I told them, kindly but matter-of-factly, that I had begun to feel as if I were sending gifts into a black hole, and that since the girls had never once acknowledged any gift I had ever sent them, ether by note, phone call, email or even a text message (birthday or Christmas), I had decided to stop inflicting presents on them. In-law was flabbergasted and embarrassed -- especially when they remembered that my kids had always written thank you notes to THEM for each gift (they weren't allowed to cash a check or play with a toy until they had written the thank you note.) They tried to say, "Well, kids just don't do that these days," to which I replied "Mine do. And so do every other one of our nieces and nephews. Honestly, it's just your kids that don't seem to care if they get a gift or not."
But on the other hand, your excuse was pretty darn lame. Don't say you aren't good at remembering dates -- if they were important to you, you'd remember them. "I can't be expected to keep up with things like that," implies you are too airheaded to enter a birthday into your phone or computer calendar - you only have to do it once. The fact that you don't basically screams that you really just don't care -- and that's ok. Own it. "I don't celebrate birthdays, sorry."
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