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If the ex husband is this particular ethnicity then that means the daughter is part of that ethnicity too. Ergo, when your friend was badmouthing an entire group of people, she was talking about her daughter too. Did you remind her of that? Because it's one thing to say disparaging things about her ex husband due to her anger about the divorce. But it's another when bashing an entire ethnic group of people, of which her own daughter is a part due to her dad's DNA. Did you ever mention that to her? What was her response? If not then why not? That would've been the first thing I would've said. "So you hate all _____'s? I guess that means you hate your daughter too cause she is a _____ too!"
It doesn't matter if she was a bigot before. She's bigot now. She let her hate for her ex take her to that place.
If she can't get a hold of herself even for her daughter's sake, I feel sad for her. Good sense might begin to kick in when/if a grandchild is born. But in any case it sounds like you hung in there as long as you could. I see no reason you should have to subject yourself to that.
You should have said something the first time you felt insulted. It would not have gone so far & she could have been more sensitive. You should have stood up to her no matter which ethnicity or culture she was degrading. Looks like she took your silence as an approval & a free pass to say whatever she wants. Did you sometimes degrade your own culture in front of her? She could have assumed that you hated it too & wont mind if she vents out. I know a lot of immigrants from my country (including me) who frequently say negative things about our culture in front of others but get defensive when someone else points out our mistakes & makes fun of us. Well, its water under the bridge & I would say you are better off without her. Friends should help you feel better about yourself, not stressed out.
I can't say what's truly in someone's heart feelings wise, so no one can truly say for sure. That being said I think she probably is feeling angry and hurt and like you said maybe feeling like the daughter is "siding" with her dad... all this sounds silly and stupid to me, but maybe that's what is driving the bigoted comments. In terms of being mean or lashing out, playing the 'race' card is probably the easiest way to try and hurt someone... IDK.... again it all sounds so silly to me.
You probably might be better off without her in your life, if she's making racial slurs about the daughters new husband and her ex right in front of you, and you share the same background, if anything that just makes her look plain old dumb and insensitive..... and those traits aside from possibly being a bigot make her a less than ideal "friend"
I think your friend is still deeply hurt from her divorce and was exposed to the wrong people while she was trying to heal. Anger is always the path of least resistance, so while still having an open wound her daughter appears to be abandoning her. The commonality isn't actually the race. I think it's her daughter leaving her in general that hurts, adding to the already unresolved emotions her fiance is welcomed by the Ex and his family. Her translation was probably a feeling of alienation that made race a reasonable venue towards understanding her pain/anger in a general sense. Then probably not with a comprehension of the path her anger and frustration took from being horribly guided on how she could explain things happening in her life you went off on her adding a 10 year friendship to her list of losses and pain and anger and alienation. The problem was you bottled it all up as well, convinced yourself it was a race thing and let it take the path of least resistance. Very human but never effective. When there's a storm in someones life caused by a flaw in their thinking the best thing you can do as a friend is to expose the flaw in love, the worst thing you can do is offer validity to it. If she is a racist it wouldn't have taken you 10 years to figure that out. You sound smart, so It can't be that. I think a 10 plus year friendship warrants all efforts especially humility in order to offer a new forum of reasoning and a healthy place for her to really vent and get her mind right with the proper guidance of a real friend or a real friend and a therapist. You should be the bigger person go back and help her to expose the flaw and the people with the same one.
The short answer? Anyone who makes ethnic slurs is a bigot. So yes, your "friend" is a bigot.
I think you know this, and it must be a terrible discovery for you.
Was she always a bigot? It's hard to say.
It always seems to me that it is easier for North Americans to meet as friends of other races on the romantic and sexual level. I have personally known some people to be very attracted to people of other races and ethnicities, but to not like them as a group. Sexual attraction is powerful.
It's also not uncommon for people to attack the ethnic group of ex-spouses.
It could be that she was always a bigot, but that her animosity towards her ex-husband along with her loss of attraction to him, as spurred these comments.
My concern is for her daughter. If she dislikes half of the daughter's ethnic back ground and is saying these things to you and to her daughter, this is very damaging to her daughter's self esteem.
it must also be hurtful to you.
Why don't you confront her the next time she makes an offensive comment? Tell her how you feel and how these comments are effecting you - and her daughter.
I do not get the feeling that she is doing this completely unconsciously. My intuition tells me that her resentment towards her ex is giving her license to make these remarks.
I think she wants to see how far she can push it - without a response from you.
All of the responses so far have been very helpful. Thank you very much.
In hindsight, when I did protest some of the remarks, I probably should have done so more strongly. I figured my friend was hurting and didn't want to add more hurt on top of it, but by being too diplomatic, my protest probably was not processed. I wasn't sure if she was just grasping at something to lash out with or she really meant it. And I really did not want to believe that she was a bigot, but I guess she is. Had I stopped her in her tracks early on, I might have kept her from making more racist remarks to my face, but if she was still thinking these thoughts without expressing them to me, I still would not want to be friends with her.
I did mention to her what Sheena said about her children. I told her that it was her choice to have children with this man and they are all genetcially 50 percent of his ethnicity whether she likes it or not. Her response was that her ex never really participated much in his culture and when they were together as a family, they also ignored it for the most part. I know, that doesn't really make sense to me either. I pointed out that you can't deny its existence. If you adopted a child from another country who physically looks different from the parents, surely the child is going to become aware of this and question it. I never got a response.
All of the responses so far have been very helpful. Thank you very much.
In hindsight, when I did protest some of the remarks, I probably should have done so more strongly. I figured my friend was hurting and didn't want to add more hurt on top of it, but by being too diplomatic, my protest probably was not processed. I wasn't sure if she was just grasping at something to lash out with or she really meant it. And I really did not want to believe that she was a bigot, but I guess she is. Had I stopped her in her tracks early on, I might have kept her from making more racist remarks to my face, but if she was still thinking these thoughts without expressing them to me, I still would not want to be friends with her.
I did mention to her what Sheena said about her children. I told her that it was her choice to have children with this man and they are all genetcially 50 percent of his ethnicity whether she likes it or not. Her response was that her ex never really participated much in his culture and when they were together as a family, they also ignored it for the most part. I know, that doesn't really make sense to me either. I pointed out that you can't deny its existence. If you adopted a child from another country who physically looks different from the parents, surely the child is going to become aware of this and question it. I never got a response.
I don't think you should beat yourself up. You were trying to be a good friend. It's not your fault in any way. She's done this to herself, no matter how sad it is. If having a daughter and a good friend of that ethnicity wasn't enough to give her pause, that's kind of on her. She really sounds blinded by hatred for her ex. She needs a therapist
Quote:
Originally Posted by calmverbs
I think your friend is still deeply hurt from her divorce and was exposed to the wrong people while she was trying to heal. Anger is always the path of least resistance, so while still having an open wound her daughter appears to be abandoning her. The commonality isn't actually the race. I think it's her daughter leaving her in general that hurts, adding to the already unresolved emotions her fiance is welcomed by the Ex and his family. Her translation was probably a feeling of alienation that made race a reasonable venue towards understanding her pain/anger in a general sense. Then probably not with a comprehension of the path her anger and frustration took from being horribly guided on how she could explain things happening in her life you went off on her adding a 10 year friendship to her list of losses and pain and anger and alienation. The problem was you bottled it all up as well, convinced yourself it was a race thing and let it take the path of least resistance. Very human but never effective. When there's a storm in someones life caused by a flaw in their thinking the best thing you can do as a friend is to expose the flaw in love, the worst thing you can do is offer validity to it. If she is a racist it wouldn't have taken you 10 years to figure that out. You sound smart, so It can't be that. I think a 10 plus year friendship warrants all efforts especially humility in order to offer a new forum of reasoning and a healthy place for her to really vent and get her mind right with the proper guidance of a real friend or a real friend and a therapist. You should be the bigger person go back and help her to expose the flaw and the people with the same one.
I understand what you are trying to say and in some ways it is very sweet, but honestly... there is nothing ambiguous about what her friend is IMO. I know there is a tendency to recoil from calling anyone a racist or bigot (some kind of "racist fatigue" is in the air it seems) but if you have someone blatantly expressing hatred for an entire ethnicity of people they are a bigot. Period. Coming to those feelings as a result of alienation or a bad marriage doesn't change what it is. The OP did't have to "convince him/herself" the friend was a bigot. And one doesn't have to put up with someone constantly putting them down in order to be a real friend.
I think one can develop understanding and sympathy for racists/bigots but to somehow put the burden on the target of bigotry to absorb it all (and to tell them that they are manufacturing it all in their head, even when the bigot in question is blatant about it) is a little extra, even if your intentions are good.
It does affect things, too, that you say her marriage was an abusive one. Maybe seeing her daughter become involved with someone who looked like her abusive ex brought up long-dormant fears and sensitivities. This doesn't excuse her open bigotry. But people react to trauma in strange ways. Sounds like she almost couldn't control it, and that's a shame. Of course you're way better off without her, but I feel sad for her that she couldn't step back from her anxieties long enough to see that she was losing such a good, patient friend in you.
All of the responses so far have been very helpful. Thank you very much.
In hindsight, when I did protest some of the remarks, I probably should have done so more strongly. I figured my friend was hurting and didn't want to add more hurt on top of it, but by being too diplomatic, my protest probably was not processed. I wasn't sure if she was just grasping at something to lash out with or she really meant it. And I really did not want to believe that she was a bigot, but I guess she is. Had I stopped her in her tracks early on, I might have kept her from making more racist remarks to my face, but if she was still thinking these thoughts without expressing them to me, I still would not want to be friends with her.
I did mention to her what Sheena said about her children. I told her that it was her choice to have children with this man and they are all genetcially 50 percent of his ethnicity whether she likes it or not. Her response was that her ex never really participated much in his culture and when they were together as a family, they also ignored it for the most part. I know, that doesn't really make sense to me either. I pointed out that you can't deny its existence. If you adopted a child from another country who physically looks different from the parents, surely the child is going to become aware of this and question it. I never got a response.
It does make sense. There are a lot of people who don't learn about the culture they're descended from because their parent didn't pass it on. I had a neighbor for example who's father was from Mexico: he joined the service, got his citizenship, married an Irish lady and had two kids. Neither kids can speak a lick of Spanish, and there's no affiliation, no connection to Mexican culture. The Mexican father did nothing to bring that aspect to his kids.
Are you saying it doesn't make sense because the kids were instead constantly exposed?
Your friend's kids are definitely pushed away from her because of the anger. Too bad she can't see that.
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