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You said a whole lot to prove a point I don't think anyone disagrees with. DTR would do well to have an arena. Sure.
The only problem I had with what you were originally saying was your snarkiness to "what's so great about Raleigh? Durham has the bulls downtown." If that's how you personally feel, that's fine. But to say it as a "local" and so a matter of fact as if that was even remotely valid was a joke. DTR even without an arena is thriving.
There are examples of cities that have built arenas/stadiums outside of their core. Its funny you bring up Detroit as one because I lived there. The silverdome was in Pontiac and the Palace where the Pistons played was in Auburn Hills. Both farther out then PNC. Now ALL their arenas are downtown Detroit. The MLS proposal was made for downtown Raleigh and maybe one day the Canes will play DTR too. If or when that happens it will be cool for a lot of people. Some will view it as a negative. But regardless, DTR will continue to be one of the hottest destinations in the Triangle. Preferences aside
Not many and Detroit needed the boost, so does downtown Raleigh. Several football stadiums are indeed located outside of the cities core, but most baseball and basketball facilities are usually located in the city. It's not about being snarky but more or less....wtf? There has to be more to the story beyond questionable leadership. Do you not find it mind-boggling when other cities are moving in the opposite direction. Atlanta recently move their baseball stadium out to Cobb County.
It's usually about collecting parking fees and closed-room deals....which is what I think happened with PNC as did Atlanta.
However, Atlanta is major city and has museums, other sporting venues and many other points of interest downtown (CNN Center, Aquarium, World of Coke, etc). But Raleigh? Granted things have improved but pretending that it's some hub draw for people living in Durham, Chapel Hill or other parts of the metro...not really. It's not all that different from the Durham scene (bars, restaurants, etc), a bit more of the same because it is indeed larger with little to no other points of interest that pique the average persons interest to visit more often. Maybe I'm missing something...enlighten me. Not hating, just being objective....give me some glitz, something...get on the ball Raleigh.
But Raleigh? Granted things have improved but pretending that it's some hub draw for people living in Durham, Chapel Hill or other parts of the metro...not really. It's not all that different from the Durham scene (bars, restaurants, etc), a bit more of the same because it is indeed larger with little to no other points of interest that pique the average persons interest to visit more often. Maybe I'm missing something...enlighten me. Not hating, just being objective....give me some glitz, something...get on the ball Raleigh.
I mean, is it "pretending" when DTR is indeed a destination for people? Like am I losing my mind here or what? There's actual tangible facts about this my guy lol. What are you saying?? Little to no points of interest for the average person?? Yet again the actual numbers say otherwise. Besides sports, what is missing? A bowling alley maybe? Other then that it literally offers everything. ESPECIALLY for the average person. A sports fanatic may find it underwhelming I guess. Maybe that's the glitz you are looking for??
If you don't like it fine but you can't sit here and say you're being objective and then say it offers "little to no other points of interest that pique the average person interest to visit more often." Huh??
Besides a downtown arena, what type of "glitz" would you like to see in downtown Raleigh?
Baltimore has Power Plant Live. Louisville has 4th Street Live. Charlotte has Epicentre. To be honest, most medium sized cities have these types of centers. Even Huntington, WV has Pullman Square and an arena downtown. Charleston, WV has one of the largest downtown malls in the southeast. The truth is that a focus on downtown isn't some new thing to most US cities (ask Greenville, SC; they'll tell you the same thing). However, it is a relatively new thing to the suburban heavy Triangle.
On the other hand, downtown Raleigh is probably one of the fastest growing downtowns in the south. What dt Raleigh lacks today, it certainly WILL NOT lack in 2025. I personally see no need in throwing rocks at a downtown that's moving in the right direction. Still though, the arena situation really needs to get fixed. You can't have Durham placing its strongest assets downtown while Raleigh places its strongest assets in between Raleigh and Durham (near an interstate).
You can't have Durham placing its strongest assets downtown while Raleigh places its strongest assets in between Raleigh and Durham (near an interstate).
Why can't you? Because a couple ppl on city data say so? Is it such a detriment to DTR that it has put DTD so much farther ahead?? Lol
And Raleigh's "strongest assest" as you put it is actually one of the 4 major sports teaming up with the university to share an arena twice the size of the bulls park. It was built there for numerous reasons that were studied and planned out by people actually paid to do that versus Joe schmo that only likes to watch his games downtown and is upset that's not where they put it. That location benefits from a more convenient spot to be able to draw from the whole triangle metro (more important for professional sports). Also being a center for the universities sports complexes including Carter Findlay Stadium. And it seems to be doing just fine there because there are plans of renovating it, not moving it.
Look I'm right there with you guys on wanting it downtown as a sports guy myself. It would be cool as another staple of downtown. But I also see the benefits and reasons why they put it where they did. Especially WHEN they did. In 1999 was DTR a place that would make a ton of sense to bring in 20k people for hockey or an NC State game. Have you guys thought about that? If Raleigh wins MLS when the last bid is up, then a downtown arena would make more sense which I imagine is why it was proposed.
Until something like that happens though nothing NEEDs to be fixed like you guys keep harping on. Nothing's broken lol. If an arena goes downtown eventually, sweet. If not, it certainly is not going to hurt it's growth or improvement in other amenities. If it's overrated to some people because it doesn't offer sports, that's fine, but then I don't wanna hear @big_aristotle saying you would prefer to hang out in North Hills. I love North Hills but if that's the "glitz" you're talking about then I don't even know if theres a point you are trying to make?
Why can't you? Because a couple ppl on city data say so? Is it such a detriment to DTR that it has put DTD so much farther ahead?? Lol
And Raleigh's "strongest assest" as you put it is actually one of the 4 major sports teaming up with the university to share an arena twice the size of the bulls park. It was built there for numerous reasons that were studied and planned out by people actually paid to do that versus Joe schmo that only likes to watch his games downtown and is upset that's not where they put it. That location benefits from a more convenient spot to be able to draw from the whole triangle metro (more important for professional sports). Also being a center for the universities sports complexes including Carter Findlay Stadium. And it seems to be doing just fine there because there are plans of renovating it, not moving it.
Look I'm right there with you guys on wanting it downtown as a sports guy myself. It would be cool as another staple of downtown. But I also see the benefits and reasons why they put it where they did. Especially WHEN they did. In 1999 was DTR a place that would make a ton of sense to bring in 20k people for hockey or an NC State game. Have you guys thought about that? If Raleigh wins MLS when the last bid is up, then a downtown arena would make more sense which I imagine is why it was proposed.
Until something like that happens though nothing NEEDs to be fixed like you guys keep harping on. Nothing's broken lol. If an arena goes downtown eventually, sweet. If not, it certainly is not going to hurt it's growth or improvement in other amenities. If it's overrated to some people because it doesn't offer sports, that's fine, but then I don't wanna hear @big_aristotle saying you would prefer to hang out in North Hills. I love North Hills but if that's the "glitz" you're talking about then I don't even know if theres a point you are trying to make?
This is just another way to take a backhanded slap at Raleigh. They prefer North Hills to Downtown. Give me a freaking break
Next week North Hills will be a strip mall in the suburbs again lol.
Back to PNC. Judging from it's upcoming event schedule. It's doing just fine in that cow pasture. I'd say it's event schedule is just as strong as NC's only Downtown arena
Not many and Detroit needed the boost, so does downtown Raleigh. Several football stadiums are indeed located outside of the cities core, but most baseball and basketball facilities are usually located in the city. It's not about being snarky but more or less....wtf? There has to be more to the story beyond questionable leadership. Do you not find it mind-boggling when other cities are moving in the opposite direction. Atlanta recently move their baseball stadium out to Cobb County.
It's usually about collecting parking fees and closed-room deals....which is what I think happened with PNC as did Atlanta.
However, Atlanta is major city and has museums, other sporting venues and many other points of interest downtown (CNN Center, Aquarium, World of Coke, etc). But Raleigh? Granted things have improved but pretending that it's some hub draw for people living in Durham, Chapel Hill or other parts of the metro...not really. It's not all that different from the Durham scene (bars, restaurants, etc), a bit more of the same because it is indeed larger with little to no other points of interest that pique the average persons interest to visit more often. Maybe I'm missing something...enlighten me. Not hating, just being objective....give me some glitz, something...get on the ball Raleigh.
Raleigh and other cities would be fine without a downtown at all.
Raleigh's downtown isn't obligated to be anything to anyone.
The "boost" that you purport it needs is relegated to your subjective opinion only.
And last time I checked the state's reputable museums are downtown.
Raleigh is the state capital, and that's been the priority for downtown.
Raleigh hasn't ever subscribed to what other cities say should be done.
For example, Raleighites won't place value in tall buildings or stellar architecture & skylines until one is built that stirs their interest in that phenomena. Until then, they're of no importance.
Yes, Raleigh is the last place to reembrace downtown, but they don't owe an apology.
What's valued in Charlotte doesn't amount to a tinker's dam to Raleigh.
Durham and Raleigh aren't in a competition for the best downtown.
Durham's assets were located by the Dukes a long time ago, and Raleigh cherishes the Durham ballpark and DPAC as much as Durham itself.
I doubt the Triangle would even entertain the notion of competing towns within itself.
All of this critique is based on what Charlotte has embraced and now says is important.
Which has been wrong as often being right, both of which
There's been plenty of passionate discussion about Raleigh (especially) and Charlotte already (and plenty of other threads include that discussion as well).
What I'm curious about is for those of you who said that Greensboro, Winston-Salem, or Durham are overrated, why do you think so?
I'm asking since those are the three places with the least votes as "overrated" and there has been much more limited discussion on those places. Or maybe someone thinks a place not listed is overrated (oddly enough Fayetteville was even mentioned by somebody)?
There's been plenty of passionate discussion about Raleigh (especially) and Charlotte already (and plenty of other threads include that discussion as well).
What I'm curious about is for those of you who said that Greensboro, Winston-Salem, or Durham are overrated, why do you think so?
I'm asking since those are the three places with the least votes as "overrated" and there has been much more limited discussion on those places. Or maybe someone thinks a place not listed is overrated (oddly enough Fayetteville was even mentioned by somebody)?
I still haven’t voted by my opinion, these are the only cities that could be overrated in NC:
- Greensboro
- Chapel Hill
- Asheville
The cities most likely to be underrated:
- Charlotte
- Raleigh
- Wilmington
The cities not rated because I feel like they have zero reputation outside of the state:
- Winston-Salem
I don’t know why, But I feel like a lot of people heard of Greensboro
I still haven’t voted by my opinion, these are the only cities that could be overrated in NC:
- Greensboro
- Chapel Hill
- Asheville
The cities most likely to be underrated:
- Charlotte
- Raleigh
- Wilmington
The cities not rated because I feel like they have zero reputation outside of the state:
- Winston-Salem
I don’t know why, But I feel like a lot of people heard of Greensboro
This is interesting in that it's a different take than what the overall poll is suggesting.
Could you elaborate any more on why you picked these places as either overrated or underrated? To your point about Greensboro have more name recognition, I wonder if that has anything to do with the airport being named after Greensboro for a long time before it was PTI or the "Central Carolina" name that was proposed, but ultimately ended as a failed idea.
Last edited by Jowel; 09-08-2018 at 10:17 AM..
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