Interstate speed

[rsh56]

Originally Posted by saganista

With good reason for many years.

And bad.

Originally Posted by saganista

Because of bias, you say?

Uh yes, they are known to have favored Toyota a lot to the point where the floor mats became an issue.

Originally Posted by saganista

Don't they state that very thing in their reports concerning newer models?

I haven't read them in many, many months

Originally Posted by saganista

No, it doesn't matter. Whatever car you drive and however it is equipped and whatever the conditions are, fuel efficiency will fall more and more substantially the faster you go above the mid-50's somewhere. There are NO cars that get good fuel efficiency at say 75 mph. There are only cars that get slightly less bad fuel efficiency.

Fair enough but...

Originally Posted by saganista

Here are the results of closed-track tests driven by professional drivers for a variety of vehicles having benefitted from precision German engineering. Note the slope of these lines as you get above 50-something mph. Down, down, down, and more down. This is the way the world is.

Your graph shows that as you increase speed, you lose fuel efficiency. That is true, but that what I'm trying to say. In some cars, if you stay constant at a certain speed between 70-75, you can get good fuel economy. That is different that trying to reach the top speed of the car. Also, no one on the beltway/66/270 goes as fast as the drivers in your graph are going.

[saganista]

Originally Posted by rsh56

And bad.

No, US manufacturers were producing junk in comparison to Japan and Germany for decades.

Originally Posted by rsh56

Uh yes, they are known to have favored Toyota a lot to the point where the floor mats became an issue.

This is known by what independent and reliable sources?

Originally Posted by rsh56

I haven't read them in many, many months.

I'd guess years.

Originally Posted by rsh56

Fair enough but...Your graph shows that as you increase speed, you lose fuel efficiency. That is true, but that what I'm trying to say. In some cars, if you stay constant at a certain speed between 70-75, you can get good fuel economy.

Not good in comparison to what you would get at 50-55 mph. The type or model of car is not material. Driving at 75 mph is roughly equivalent to paying $5.00 for a gallon of gasoline instead of $3.75.

Originally Posted by rsh56

That is different that trying to reach the top speed of the car. Also, no one on the beltway/66/270 goes as fast as the drivers in your graph are going.

The graph begins at 50 mph. Virtually everyone on the Beltway/66/270 at least tries to drive faster than 50 mph, and most succeed. The graph data were meanwhile not the product of some sort of drag-race scenario. Drivers on a closed-track maintaining a constant speed for a set number of laps.

Speed kills. And it significantly reduces fuel efficiency.

[oneasterisk]

It's not the speed that kills you, it's the sudden stop

[rsh56]

Originally Posted by saganista

No, US manufacturers were producing junk in comparison to Japan and Germany for decades.

The media has put out a lot of hype about that for sure. There has been junk cars from the US, but they weren't all junk.

Originally Posted by saganista

This is known by what independent and reliable sources?

Originally Posted by saganista

I'd guess years.

I'd rather not be brainwashed by some publication who favors a company in which they haven't even tested their cars yet recommended them. A magazine also does not dictate I buy.

Originally Posted by saganista

Not good in comparison to what you would get at 50-55 mph. The type or model of car is not material. Driving at 75 mph is roughly equivalent to paying $5.00 for a gallon of gasoline instead of $3.75.

The graph begins at 50 mph. Virtually everyone on the Beltway/66/270 at least tries to drive faster than 50 mph, and most succeed. The graph data were meanwhile not the product of some sort of drag-race scenario. Drivers on a closed-track maintaining a constant speed for a set number of laps.

Speed kills. And it significantly reduces fuel efficiency.

I can tell you that the test done in an oval track in Germany is going to be very different to what one would do in a road trip or in a daily commute. I'm pretty sure even the Prius owners would find this test different to what they've observed.

And it is not the speed that kills, it is the drivers that often lack the skill to drive.

[saganista]

Originally Posted by oneasterisk

It's not the speed that kills you, it's the sudden stop

Yes, falling is like that as well. Can't recommend falling from any great height either.

[saganista]

Originally Posted by rsh56

The media has put out a lot of hype about that for sure. There has been junk cars from the US, but they weren't all junk.

Nobody said they were all junk. Least of all Consumer Reports. But the simple facts are that Asian and European manufacturers produced more attractive, better quality, lower-priced, longer-lasting, more effcient vehicles that what US manufacturers did. Do you think market share shifted so dramatically simply because of the ability of Consumer Reports to bamboozle its readers?

Originally Posted by rsh56

I'd rather not be brainwashed by some publication who favors a company in which they haven't even tested their cars yet recommended them. A magazine also does not dictate I buy.

How fascinating.

Originally Posted by rsh56

I can tell you that the test done in an oval track in Germany is going to be very different to what one would do in a road trip or in a daily commute.

Of course. You don't get any relevant results or useful data from a road trip or commuting. All you do is drive around at whatever speed for whatever length of time with nothing more than a dime-store fuel gauge to monitor fuel consumption. That's pointless. If you want to determine with any precision at all the effect of increasing speed on fuel efficiency, you control the environment so as to isolate those two variables and insulate them against the intrusion of "road noise" that would otherwise corrupt your observations.

Originally Posted by rsh56

I'm pretty sure even the Prius owners would find this test different to what they've observed.

What would lead you to say that? Are you in touch with say a few thousand Prius owners? Any of them in Germany?

Originally Posted by rsh56

And it is not the speed that kills, it is the drivers that often lack the skill to drive.

LOL! All of these drivers whom you find so lacking in skill are nevertheless out there on the road with you every single day, and they are far more likely to kill you if they if they are driving 75 instead of 55. Good luck with that.

[jillabean]

On a side note, I always get a kick out of the "this country makes better cars than that county" arguments. For example, I've been told my "American" Pontiac Vibe is "worse" than the "Japanese" Toyota Matrix because, well, Toyota is better. This is even reflected in their resale value. But the irony is, both cars are exactly the same, were made in the same plant in California, with the same parts. One just has better marketing. There are other cars like that too... a lot of Fords and Mazdas are the same cars (like the Ford Probe and the Maszda MX-6). There was also the Nissan Quest and Mercury Villager which were the same.

That's all I can think of off the top of my head. I know there are more (I can easily think of related companies having the same cars (like all the Pontiacs and Chevys that are the same... or the Lexus' and Toyotas that are the same), but it's harder when it's different parent companies--like GM and Toyota).

It's like some people can't get out of the late 1970s-1980s mode of thinking when American cars were struggling in quality. But that was 20-30 years ago. Just goes to show how badly a bad reputation can impact a business I suppose.

[rsh56]

Originally Posted by saganista

Of course. You don't get any relevant results or useful data from a road trip or commuting. All you do is drive around at whatever speed for whatever length of time with nothing more than a dime-store fuel gauge to monitor fuel consumption. That's pointless. If you want to determine with any precision at all the effect of increasing speed on fuel efficiency, you control the environment so as to isolate those two variables and insulate them against the intrusion of "road noise" that would otherwise corrupt your observations.

Fair enough.

Originally Posted by saganista

LOL! All of these drivers whom you find so lacking in skill are nevertheless out there on the road with you every single day, and they are far more likely to kill you if they if they are driving 75 instead of 55. Good luck with that.

I never said those drivers weren't there. I know that they aren't capable of handling those kinds of speeds either.