Dear PWC, stop blaming the Silver Line (Arlington, Manassas: apartments, condos)

[tysonsengineer]

Originally Posted by Middlin

I'm not an engineer so forgive me if this is incorrect, but if the long range plan of rail (VRE) in Gainesville is ever to happen, I would assume this project would have had to happen, or at least in part

The two are mutually exclusive if you have good land use, ie multiple ways to get to park and ride, a decent multimodal network. You would only need to do spot improvements around the Manassas VRE station/park and ride, not the entire stretch of 28. Much easier to implement. Much less costly. No harm in the question.

[Middlin]

I was referencing your comment on the 600 million spent on the Gainesville exchange

[tysonsengineer]

Originally Posted by Middlin

I was referencing your comment on the 600 million spent on the Gainesville exchange

In Gainesville thats not a VRE track, thats Norfolk Southern. In the future they could have a VRE station, but the closest one is Manassas.

[car54]

They say widening roads has little effect and after the other night, I tend to agree.

I was taking a football team to West Potomac High School and foolishly got on the Beltway heading towards the Wilson Bridge/Route 1. The beltway stopped right after 395. We (6 buses) bailed at Van Dorn St and took the back roads to West Pot.

They spent over 2 BILLION dollars just on the new bridge and untold millions more on the approaches. For what? I thought it must have been an accident or something, but I've since learned that it was just the normal pm mess.

I won't make that mistake again.

[Middlin]

So to address your 600 million on the Gainesville exchange (which included areas not even at the intersection) all of that was a waste, even if they bring a rail system to Gainesville?

The argument that 57,000 cars should NEVER have happened is pointless. The point is smart choices that can get cars off the road.

The centerpiece is a pair of overpasses: one carrying Route 29 over the Norfolk Southern Railroad, and one carrying Linton Hall and Gallerher roads over the railroad and Route 29. To further improve traffic flow, crews will also widen Route 29 to six lanes and eliminate driveway entrances and two traffic signals between I-66 and Virginia Oaks Drive.

[Ben 'n Jen]

and right on cue PWC board of supervisors approves the planning of another 1600 residences on Linton Hall Rd. 450 more homes are being proposed for further development of the Braemar subdivision on Sudley Manor Rd.

All this will require another high school (which puts 4 high schools within 10 mins of each other) two more elementary and one more middle school. If you think Linton Hall, 29, 28 and 66 are crowded now, wait 2 more years.

[tysonsengineer]

Originally Posted by Middlin

So to address your 600 million on the Gainesville exchange (which included areas not even at the intersection) all of that was a waste, even if they bring a rail system to Gainesville?

The argument that 57,000 cars should NEVER have happened is pointless. The point is smart choices that can get cars off the road.

The centerpiece is a pair of overpasses: one carrying Route 29 over the Norfolk Southern Railroad, and one carrying Linton Hall and Gallerher roads over the railroad and Route 29. To further improve traffic flow, crews will also widen Route 29 to six lanes and eliminate driveway entrances and two traffic signals between I-66 and Virginia Oaks Drive.

I will concede the point that IF they make vast improvements to the rail system to bring it out to Gainesville, which is still under debate, then the overpass project would have been a decent one as it will improve train routing/timing.

However, that's still being debated, and in the case of PWC politics, don't bet on it. And to the point at heart, the initial claim that the Silver Line was stealing all the money, the point remains, PWC does get its share of state funds. In fact it gets more than it should based on population and based on amount of revenue provided to the state compared to fairfax which has nearly 3 times the population and receives less annual state funds than PWC. So the idea that the official from Manassas City said that Fairfax gets all the state money, is on its head wrong.

[Mr. Benz]

Originally Posted by tysonsengineer

Well lets see, I had a 3 mile commute that took me 45 minutes today because of wider roads blocking my ability to bike, which basically forces me to drive more than I want to. Wider roads mean hundreds of millions of dollars under the guise and lie that it will help commutes, when it instead just makes it easier for developers to build cheap housing out on the periphery and pass the cost of infrastructure onto tax payers, and wider roads destroy neighborhoods, are ugly, and bring down property values and the ability for hard working shop owners to run a business.

Want to know what happened to main street america? The commuters widened the roads and killed it.

It took you 45 minutes to go 3 miles? Must have been an accident, and also not the norm. You made your point about wider roads ruining neighbors, but you haven't address why extending the the Orange Line into Manassas and the Blue/Yellow line into Woodbridge is not a good idea. Folks saying BRT and beefing up VRE are taking the cop out approach.

[tysonsengineer]

Originally Posted by Mr. Benz

It took you 45 minutes to go 3 miles? Must have been an accident, and also not the norm. You made your point about wider roads ruining neighbors, but you haven't address why extending the the Orange Line into Manassas and the Blue/Yellow line into Woodbridge is not a good idea. Folks saying BRT and beefing up VRE are taking the cop out approach.

45 minutes to go 3 miles without a car. The issue is that Route 123 is completely unusable for anyone thats not in a car. So days when I choose to not contribute to traffic and use my bike, I am forced to bike to the 23 bus, ride the bus which circuitously goes around Tysons, just so I can go 3 miles down Route 123. Otherwise, if the road wasn't such a monstrosity, I'd just bike it. Would take me about 15 minutes max at a leisurely rate.

If I take my car it takes 12 minutes.

The reason I am against OR/BL extension to PWC is because the density in PWC doesn't support it. The rail will have to run MASSIVE distances, meaning headways for everyone deteriorate so that it can pick up what? A couple thousand people that are maxed out because of the amount of parking due to the complete lack of proper land use? If Manassas/Woodbridge were to put together a strong towns plan showing no new growth outside of TOD, focusing on townhomes and mixed use in the areas around the metro then I would think it MIGHT be better. But then again, VRE already does that.

Another reason?

It will cost between 4 and 6 billion dollars. Where's that money gonna come from? Unlike the DTR/private sources for Silver Line there is no such funding source for the orange, and certainly theres no land owners willing to pay 4-6 billion for the extension and tunnel that would be required across the potomac (See WMATA statement on extensions).

Its all a farse, and for the sake of what? So that it won't be VRE. Well for 4 billion dollars you can make a world class commuter system that runs all day just like metro. We'll even call it VRE Orange Line if it makes everyone feel better.

So in summary. Cost and because its pointless. Even if they magically found the funding (won't happen) it would also take 20 years to consolidate the Right of Way, acquire design plans, construct, etc. Or you could have a much better VRE, in 2 years.

Your choice.

[Spaten_Drinker]

Originally Posted by Megadell

I gotta say, I'm pretty glad I moved to Arlington. More expensive, but now I can actually get to places and things and not have to spend 40 mins driving.

Me too. We moved from South Riding to Annandale. The world has opened up with all the things we can now do with our time and money instead of wasting it in the car.