Whats the difference culturally between Northeast Ohio and Northwest Ohio? (Cleveland: home, income)
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Not too much cultural difference between the two areas. Ohio is a very divided state politically, but the it's a North-South division rather than an East-West one. The northern part of the state is generally more liberal and home to those rust-belt (but improving) cities and their suburbs. The southern part is more conservative, rural (with the exception of Cincinnati) and much of it is considered Appalachia.
NW Ohio - declining small to medium towns sprinkled among vastness of the flat corn fields. NE Ohio - declining high density metropolis sprinkled on the hillsides, not that many cornfields. Those are major "culture" differences. There are some social class, ownership status and income differences though. Most of the ostentatiously "cultural" differences between point A and B are due to different social class/tax bracket mix at those particular locations. Individually blue collar (white collar or rentiers) NW Ohioans, NE Ohioans, New Yorkers, Californians, Indian reservation dwellers, etc., etc., are virtually identical "culture" wise.
As for differences in "liberality" of Northern and Southern Ohio. Rural areas are more "conservative" regardless of their geographical location. Most of the rural counties in the Northern Ohio, Michigan, Illinois, etc., etc., etc. are conservative. Why? It's very simple, rural counties are made of small land (business) owners + low wage paupers serving local owning classes. Paupers are not only poorly paid, great number of them are drowning their status anxiety in TV excess, cheap sugars&fats, drugs and alcohol, etc.. In other words most of the rural working/serving class are too busy altering their brain chemistry and/or BMI to vote in their best interests (or to vote at all). However, propertied rural county' "elites" vote religiously with predictable results. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see why small property/land owners vote conservative 95%. They have to keep paupers away from their small fortunes and holdings. Having low taxes, having excess of cheap/no benefits rural labor is crucial for their economic survival (much more so than for transnational corporations).
Keeping paupers away (at little or no cost to owners) is the most fundamental promise of the conservatism. Simple. Don't get me wrong, liberal ideology gives the very same promise (containing of poor and working classes), however liberals peddle rather more expensive social control products. It's no wonder that less prosperous rural "elites" pick less expensive social control ideology while fattened up city elites may occasionally indulge in liberalism. It's like picking between a Hyundai and Lexus.
Last edited by RememberMee; 05-07-2012 at 01:35 PM..
NW Ohio - declining small to medium towns sprinkled among vastness of the flat corn fields. NE Ohio - declining high density metropolis sprinkled on the hillsides, not that many cornfields. Those are major "culture" differences. There are some social class, ownership status and income differences though. Most of the ostentatiously "cultural" differences between point A and B are due to different social class/tax bracket mix at those particular locations. Individually blue collar (white collar or rentiers) NW Ohioans, NE Ohioans, New Yorkers, Californians, Indian reservation dwellers, etc., etc., are virtually identical "culture" wise.
As for differences in "liberality" of Northern and Southern Ohio. Rural areas are more "conservative" regardless of their geographical location. Most of the rural counties in the Northern Ohio, Michigan, Illinois, etc., etc., etc. are conservative. Why? It's very simple, rural counties are made of small land (business) owners + low wage paupers serving local owning classes. Paupers are not only poorly paid, great number of them are drowning their status anxiety in TV excess, cheap sugars&fats, drugs and alcohol, etc.. In other words most of the rural working/serving class are too busy altering their brain chemistry and/or BMI to vote in their best interests (or to vote at all). However, propertied rural county' "elites" vote religiously with predictable results. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see why small property/land owners vote conservative 95%. They have to keep paupers away from their small fortunes and holdings. Having low taxes, having excess of cheap/no benefits rural labor is crucial for their economic survival (much more so than for transnational corporations).
Keeping paupers away (at little or no cost to owners) is the most fundamental promise of the conservatism. Simple. Don't get me wrong, liberal ideology gives the very same promise (containing of poor and working classes), however liberals peddle rather more expensive social control products. It's no wonder that less prosperous rural "elites" pick less expensive social control ideology while fattened up city elites may occasionally indulge in liberalism. It's like picking between a Hyundai and Lexus.
Just curious, which part of NW or NE Ohio have you lived in that helped you devise these descriptions?
Just curious, which part of NW or NE Ohio have you lived in that helped you devise these descriptions?
If you think my descriptions are incorrect and I missed some major cultural rifts between NE and NW Ohio etc. you are free to enlighten the public.
I reiterate my general observation (derived from my extensive travel and residence hopping): individuals of comparable income (adjusted for cost of living and asset ownership status) are more or less "culturally" identical regardless of their color of skin, country of origin, accents, etc., etc. For example, I can claim "authoritatively" that Kentucky low wage, trailer dwelling individual is more or less "culturally" identical to a low wage, trailer dwelling Indian residing on a Montana reservation. That's how "culturally" uniform this country is.
Of course, there are no two identical sand particles on a shore. This fortunate circumstance generated hundreds of thousands of city-data posts discussing (and blowing it out of proportion big time) very minor differences between virtually indistinguishable locations and regions. Seriously, if somebody would come up with a good sized post discussing "cultural" differences between NW and NE Ohio, that somebody should try to convert his/her stupendously vivid imagination to a career in creative writing or something. Generally speaking, tell me your tax bracket and I'll guess your "culture", behavior, entertainment patterns, etc. etc. with amazing accuracy regardless of everything else.
Last edited by RememberMee; 05-07-2012 at 11:16 PM..
If you think my descriptions are incorrect and I missed some major cultural rifts between NE and NW Ohio etc. you are free to enlighten the public.
I reiterate my general observation (derived from my extensive travel and residence hopping): individuals of comparable income (adjusted for cost of living and asset ownership status) are more or less "culturally" identical regardless of their color of skin, country of origin, accents, etc., etc. For example, I can claim "authoritatively" that Kentucky low wage, trailer dwelling individual is more or less "culturally" identical to a low wage, trailer dwelling Indian residing on a Montana reservation. That's how "culturally" uniform this country is.
Of course, there are no two identical sand particles on a shore. This fortunate circumstance generated hundreds of thousands of city-data posts discussing (and blowing it out of proportion big time) very minor differences between virtually indistinguishable locations and regions. Seriously, if somebody would come up with a good sized post discussing "cultural" differences between NW and NE Ohio, that somebody should try to convert his/her stupendously vivid imagination to a career in creative writing or something. Generally speaking, tell me your tax bracket and I'll guess your "culture", behavior, entertainment patterns, etc. etc. with amazing accuracy regardless of everything else.
I will agree with your message that "culturally" there is very little difference between NW and NE Ohio. I'm not really sure what you, or anyone else for that matter, is using as the defining criteria for "culture".
Your initial statement that "NW Ohio - declining small to medium towns sprinkled among vastness of the flat corn fields. NE Ohio - declining high density metropolis sprinkled on the hillsides, not that many cornfields." started what in my mind was a downhill spiral in the validity of your statements. It is true that, economically, both areas have been declining. This, however, is true throughout most of the country. Some areas have picked up recently, faster than others.
You go on to state that "rural counties are made of small land (business) owners + low wage paupers serving local owning classes. Paupers are not only poorly paid, great number of them are drowning their status anxiety in TV excess, cheap sugars&fats, drugs and alcohol, etc.." Having spent my entire life in NW Ohio, I can state that the great majority of people in this area are honest, hard working, voting individuals, many of whom are ambitious enough to raise their own foods to get away from the highly processed items.
Continuing, "However, propertied rural county' "elites" vote religiously with predictable results. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see why small property/land owners vote conservative 95%. They have to keep paupers away from their small fortunes and holdings." It appears to me that, in this area, financially, the differences between the (your terminology) "owners and paupers" is a much smaller percentage than what is reported in areas like New York City, Chicago, Los Angeles, and such areas.
I get the impression that something is causing your negative attitude about life in areas such as this. It apparently is not your lifestyle, and you are entitled to that opinion. However, I take offense at the width of the brush you are using to paint this picture, and asked about your first-hand experience in generating your opinions.
In response to the OP, even though I have somewhat of a knowledge of what I consider the culture of NW Ohio, the sense of family, the passing on of traditions from one generation to another, the responsibility for ones actions, etc. and I am also aware that some of that seems to be dwindling somewhat in current generations, I have no experience of NE Ohio, so I can't make a comparison between the two.
I grew up in rural NW Ohio, and I have felt very little commonality with NE Ohio at all. I think its probably more the fact that NE Ohio is very much urbanized, where NW Ohio has alot of small towns and farmland, having a slower pace of life, friendliness, gun ownership and acceptance, conservativeness, etc. People from Toledo probably have a completely different point of view of NW Ohio than I do. In the country, we were very midwestern, where many in NE Ohio don't even consider themselves midwestern (if that doesn't show a cultural difference I don't know what does).
Then again, what do I know, I'm just a backward, overweight, drug addicted rural idiot too stupid to vote democrat like the brilliant minds of our time do (aka remembermee). Wow, of all the arrogant, demeaning posts I have read on this site I think that took the cake!
I don't think there's a huge difference between NW Ohio and NE Ohio. NE has a bigger population center in Cleveland. It's also more hilly in topography and gets Lake Effect Snow.
I don't think there's a huge difference between NW Ohio and NE Ohio. NE has a bigger population center in Cleveland. It's also more hilly in topography and gets Lake Effect Snow.
NEO has about 4.5 million people in its 14 county area (some suggest that its even larger @ 5.2 million people in a 20 county area). NEO has a major urban center which is surrounded by 4 urban satellite centers. NWO has about 1.6 million in a 25 county area and has one smaller urban center. NEO is considerably more urban and considerably more cosmopolitan than NWO. Most of the culture in America is a direct derivative of the multi-national influences present within it. In the north, the rural areas tend to be adapted WASPs. The urban areas tend to be more muti-national and multi cultural. It's the combination of these cultures which sum up to the whole of the area. NWO is more of the former while, because of it's strong multi-ethnic influence, NEO is more of the latter.
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