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Yet, today, more blacks live in the suburbs than the cities.
What specific policies kept blacks out of the '50s-'60s suburbs?
Do you have any links or studies that support that claim? You would have to define what is urban and suburban first. For example, Cleveland and Cincinnati have relatively small city boundaries, but does the urban environment end at their boundaries? No. Most of Cuyahoga County could be described as urban, and the built environment outside of the city is not significantly different than inside it.
When we talk about traditional suburbia, it is typically low population density, low building density and car oriented. When we talk about traditional urbanity, we think the opposite- higher densities of buildings and population, more transit, etc. Both qualities can also exist within the same boundary, in both suburbs and core cities. So what you'd really have to do is support the idea that more black people choose to live in traditional suburban environments, but you can't really do that because it's just not true.
Cities, and indeed urban environments, are overwhelmingly where racial and ethnic minorities concentrate- as with whites- because that's where the jobs are.
Furthermore, you cannot make the argument that where people live is the equivalent of where they prefer to live. Higher housing costs in some neighborhoods keep people out even if they would prefer to be there. School quality also plays a role. There are a lot of factors at play.
De facto redlining still occurs, and it certainly did in the 1950s and 1960s. There were many unofficial policies that skewed where minorities could live. For example, it was much harder for a black family to get financing outside of minority-majority neighborhoods, but particularly nicer suburbs. Blacks also tended to make much less than their white counterparts due to systemic racism, meaning they often couldn't afford to escape the then worse-off conditions in cities. Consider also the highway system- most of them were plowed directly through minority neighborhoods, not white ones, which helped lower nearby home values, making them even harder to sell. They also served to cut off certain areas from more prosperous ones- and their jobs. And do we really need to get into the whole segregation thing? I mean, that's a pretty well-known hallmark of that era. How do you not know that?
Interesting to look back at the Parma case 40 years later. The policies of not wanting low income housing developments, not having a fair housing ''everyone is welcome here'' resolution, and the perceived hostility allowing blacks in moving into Parma were a stretch as the court relied on the ''effect'' on African Americans. Like RTA today, its hands are tied because changes will overwhelming effect black riders because the vast majority of its riders are black.
40 years later, blacks comprise a whopping 2.3% of Parma's population, so the desire of blacks ever wanting to move there as they headed into the eastern suburbs rings true. Obviously blacks didn't flood into Parma post-1980. Why? Like the 1970s, they didn't want to whether low income housing was allowed or not.
Parma is an open city today, where are the black residents excluded for so long? The so called policies that kept blacks out are long gone, where are the 10,000s of blacks that were waiting to move in? Answer: they never wanted to live there in the 1st place.
Parma has lost about 20,000 people since its 1970 peak, not exactly a white flight panic out either. That's Cleveland's sprawl effect, not blacks moving in effect.
If I recall correctly, Parma was subsequently challenged that its police department was all-white. This due to Parma's residency requirement; with hardly any black residents, the residency requirement had a discriminatory effect on any black residents. Still no black surge in population...
One could look back now and say Parma was simply targeted because it was too white and, at the time, was ridiculed for being heavily Polish. It was a local joke complete with TV skits like Parma Place, Mary Hartski, and the best, Amrap. Even Drew Carey used Parma in his show "Moon over Parma''; you know Mimi was from Parma.
Racism didn't end in 1970, nor did its effects. A quick look at the news shows it's alive, if not thriving. Whether Parma is "open" today is kind of irrelevant if other factors are still at play.
Do you have any links or studies that support that claim? You would have to define what is urban and suburban first. For example, Cleveland and Cincinnati have relatively small city boundaries, but does the urban environment end at their boundaries? No. Most of Cuyahoga County could be described as urban, and the built environment outside of the city is not significantly different than inside it.
When we talk about traditional suburbia, it is typically low population density, low building density and car oriented. When we talk about traditional urbanity, we think the opposite- higher densities of buildings and population, more transit, etc. Both qualities can also exist within the same boundary, in both suburbs and core cities. So what you'd really have to do is support the idea that more black people choose to live in traditional suburban environments, but you can't really do that because it's just not true.
Cities, and indeed urban environments, are overwhelmingly where racial and ethnic minorities concentrate- as with whites- because that's where the jobs are.
Furthermore, you cannot make the argument that where people live is the equivalent of where they prefer to live. Higher housing costs in some neighborhoods keep people out even if they would prefer to be there. School quality also plays a role. There are a lot of factors at play.
De facto redlining still occurs, and it certainly did in the 1950s and 1960s. There were many unofficial policies that skewed where minorities could live. For example, it was much harder for a black family to get financing outside of minority-majority neighborhoods, but particularly nicer suburbs. Blacks also tended to make much less than their white counterparts due to systemic racism, meaning they often couldn't afford to escape the then worse-off conditions in cities. Consider also the highway system- most of them were plowed directly through minority neighborhoods, not white ones, which helped lower nearby home values, making them even harder to sell. They also served to cut off certain areas from more prosperous ones- and their jobs. And do we really need to get into the whole segregation thing? I mean, that's a pretty well-known hallmark of that era. How do you not know that?
Thanks for your telescope-millennial driven history lesson about the past; now the highways were mostly run through minority neighborhoods. Never realized all the minority neighborhoods that were displaced and disrupted when I-90 cut through Cleveland's west side, and really the east side. Heard the same thing about the railroads...lol.
Btw, blacks didn't and still don't ''own'' being poor. I know white privilege and ''systemic racism''and all, that white kids from suburbia were taught in school at the expense of actual history. America is an awful country rooted in racism. Got it. You're lucky to be living in a stable 3rd world country now. Guess I'll never be as down with the people as you are.
Racism didn't end in 1970, nor did its effects. A quick look at the news shows it's alive, if not thriving. Whether Parma is "open" today is kind of irrelevant if other factors are still at play.
Blacks didn't want to live in Parma pretty much as anyone else that wasn't Polish, Ukranian, or Russian.
Blacks still don't want to live in Parma. You don't even know what you're talking about other than using today's cliche SJW terms. Patronizing white liberals continue to be blacks worst ''friends''.
Given that more blacks live in suburbs than cities now, don't know why you still think ''other factors'' are still at play? Like what? Migration patterns in cities like Cleveland were based on ethnic enclaves heading out a certain direction. The Italians and jews went into the east suburbs as did blacks. Jews and Italians didn't pour into Parma. The Irish are in the west suburbs, not Parma.
What was the point of all that litigation then from 40+ years ago? Are the now 40 years later 1,500 blacks the beneficiaries of the low income housing Parma was forced to provide? Is that it? You'll be happy to know that CMHA now spreads out Section 8 housing throughout Cuyahoga County.
Other than sticking it to the white ''ethnic'' enclave of Parma, what wasn't addressed in this old lawsuit that continues to see the black population so low. Surely you studied this famous Parma Housing Act lawsuit in your racial studies courses.
Parma is ''open'' today, how can you dismiss this as ''irrelevant''?
I think we've proven the last few years that racism is very much a national problem and it's not getting better. Ohio is racist, but so are the other 49 states. The argument is really only about degree, and I don't necessarily think Ohio is the worst offender.
Who's "we" and how has your supposition been "proven"?
As if there’s something wrong or racist about a city that isn’t racially diverse. Most people of each and every race prefer to associate with those of their own race. Nothing wrong with that. The term “racist” is so overused and watered down and seems to have so many meanings. The brainwashed would refer to any community that isn’t mixed as racist. Disgusting fools.
Nixon and Rhodes had those (mostly Jewish) kids slaughtered at Kent State. Then to make things worse, the state built a gym on the land where this kids were shot. And then to make it even worse, they put Rhodes name on it.
When another nation does things like Tiananmen Square in China, we as a nation condemn it.
But not here on our own soil. There is something wrong with this picture.
You're comparing Tiananmen Square to Kent State with a side of killing Jewish students as if Jews were targeted? lol
Thanks for your telescope-millennial driven history lesson about the past; now the highways were mostly run through minority neighborhoods. Never realized all the minority neighborhoods that were displaced and disrupted when I-90 cut through Cleveland's west side, and really the east side. Heard the same thing about the railroads...lol.
Btw, blacks didn't and still don't ''own'' being poor. I know white privilege and ''systemic racism''and all, that white kids from suburbia were taught in school at the expense of actual history. America is an awful country rooted in racism. Got it. You're lucky to be living in a stable 3rd world country now. Guess I'll never be as down with the people as you are.
So all you have is some lame insults and no response to the actual topic? Not unexpected, but I was hoping you could hold a debate without grade school immaturity and your own brand of racism on where I live. Not a serious person.
Blacks didn't want to live in Parma pretty much as anyone else that wasn't Polish, Ukranian, or Russian.
Blacks still don't want to live in Parma. You don't even know what you're talking about other than using today's cliche SJW terms. Patronizing white liberals continue to be blacks worst ''friends''.
Given that more blacks live in suburbs than cities now, don't know why you still think ''other factors'' are still at play? Like what? Migration patterns in cities like Cleveland were based on ethnic enclaves heading out a certain direction. The Italians and jews went into the east suburbs as did blacks. Jews and Italians didn't pour into Parma. The Irish are in the west suburbs, not Parma.
What was the point of all that litigation then from 40+ years ago? Are the now 40 years later 1,500 blacks the beneficiaries of the low income housing Parma was forced to provide? Is that it? You'll be happy to know that CMHA now spreads out Section 8 housing throughout Cuyahoga County.
Other than sticking it to the white ''ethnic'' enclave of Parma, what wasn't addressed in this old lawsuit that continues to see the black population so low. Surely you studied this famous Parma Housing Act lawsuit in your racial studies courses.
Parma is ''open'' today, how can you dismiss this as ''irrelevant''?
Ah, you're one of those "racism doesn't exist anymore" types, huh. When I see someone say "SJW" as an argument, it becomes pretty clear the conversation is not going anywhere. Have fun!
As if there’s something wrong or racist about a city that isn’t racially diverse. Most people of each and every race prefer to associate with those of their own race. Nothing wrong with that. The term “racist” is so overused and watered down and seems to have so many meanings. The brainwashed would refer to any community that isn’t mixed as racist. Disgusting fools.
Exactly!
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