Thinking about leaving Ohio??? Get in line and fill this out (Cincinnati: retirement, rated)

[jbcmh81]

Originally Posted by ZnGuy

Read what I said, did I say everyone or some people?? Man you are defensive, especially for someone that doesn't live in Ohio, get over it. The fact of matter things have worked out great for us and I am expressing my experience, nothing more.

Come on, what was the point of saying all that if you didn't personally feel like the people still living in Ohio are somehow missing out on a better life? You didn't like it and didn't find it to your tastes, fine. But who exactly are you trying to convince? Somehow, these things never quite seem like the mere sharing of experiences.

[jbcmh81]

Originally Posted by goofy328

Wages in NYC aren't all that great at all, especially for those in the service economy, retail, fast food, etc. People are just willing to do anything and everything to live in NYC because they feel it is larger than life. But once you leave Manhattan, NYC isn't that much different from any other city. To be fair parts of the outer boroughs aren't any different from Cleveland. Now if you can make it in finance, real estate, entertainment, journalism, etc. NYC is the best place to be but for regular folk it isn't all its cracked up to be. NYC also has a huge welfare state those that would normally be disqualified for stuff like Section 8, food stamps, etc. can still qualify there because the cost of living is that much higher.

Wages in this part of Virginia aren't that much better. Locals always state that the military is what is suppressing wages. Wages in Northern Virginia tend to be a lot higher. Of course that is nothing in comparison to DC.

Not every job is going to pay 6 figures, but I was talking about average income.

[jbcmh81]

Originally Posted by bjimmy24

I can't help the ignorance of the general populace. One assumes that those who can read could be swayed to believe basic facts, but I've been surprised before.

Exactly. I actually think Ohio should do better at marketing itself, but it goes without saying that people should take personal responsibility as well and be informed. Not even considering Ohio based on 10/20/30 year old stereotypes just seems lazy.

[jbcmh81]

Originally Posted by goofy328

You guys are killing me. As many other places that Ohio has to compete with these days, particularly with the South, and the West, and the best I can get is that people should know if they read up on things.

Back in the day Ohio was a major thoroughfare on the Underground Railroad, it had the first Historically Black College, we had major industry here. People were leaving West Virginia, Alabama, etc. in droves. Anyone could walk off the street and get a job, even work their way up to being middle class and own their own house.

It isn't just the South. Places like DC, NY, and Chicago are looking interesting again, after decades of decline in those cities. That old environment that used to exist doesn't. You need to be educated, and people usually find some other chic place that seems more interesting on the surface.

I grew up in Akron. People were telling us back then what it would be like today back in the 90s. I went to school in Wilberforce and hung out in Dayton for 5, 7 years. Things changed for the worse in that short period of time, and this was long before the housing crash and the recession. NCR moved their corporate headquarters to the South. I dealt with a hostile working environment, and the blatant racism of Southern Ohio for years, even went six months without working, and no unemployment check either. I put up with a lot of s* in Ohio, not out of loyalty, not because I wanted to be there, but I had no other choice as I was stuck. All I wanted was a simple job, not a lot of money, just something I could work my way up the ladder but without a degree and not being someone that fit into corporate environments easily I always got the interview but never got that call back.

Southwestern Virginia wasn't much better. In some ways it was even worse than Ohio. But I used a different address and got a job in Southeastern Virginia over the phone, stayed with the person that lived at that address once I got there and made it work. There were times I lived in hotels, or extended stay. Virginia is very expensive in comparison to Ohio. You might have 3 or 4 people in a 2 bedroom apartment. But a lot of people just deal with it and move on.

Wages aren't any higher in the Mid-Atlantic, the South, or the East Coast. A lot of times they are lower. But you don't have the crime here; what people complain about around here is laughable compared to what I dealt with in Dayton. The weather is nicer, but then again, the weather in NYC isn't that bad either. People are friendly and approachable. I love Ohio, and there will always be people that leave for overcrowded places like NYC that are willing to share rent with 5 other people and live in a small studio but the energy that is on the Coasts isn't there in Ohio for everyone. You don't have to go downtown or out to the suburbs. You don't have situations where the entire block is empty like you do in the Midwest. Most places that were like that have been razed over and rebuilt.

I really like Cleveland, especially downtown. I think it is a more interesting city than Columbus. But I can't tell anyone about it; and this isn't people here, it is my family there in Akron. They look at me like "what the f* are you talking about". It isn't as though they don't go up there, or drive through there. A lot of them go up there to hang out. So when people that actually live there are putting the place down and want to leave it becomes sort of difficult. People aren't evangelizing Ohio; they shout Atlanta and Georgia from the rooftops and places like NY and LA own the media so go figure and even DC has its own salesman but outside of these forums no one is really talking about Ohio in that way.

Some observations... if you had so much trouble in both places, honestly it was probably more about you than the place. And I definitely get your point about certain native Ohioans being the most cynical about the state of all the critics out there. But imo, this is all kind of a self-fulfilling prophecy. Those that hate where they are often times create a perpetually negative environment to help reinforce the conditions they think they can't change. Everyone goes through rough times, whether you're in Austin or Detroit. This is not about Ohio or Virginia or anywhere. It's about the individual.

Ohio has a rich history of amazing people and helped build the US in ways that few other states can ever hope to claim. If you're from there, there is absolutely zero to be ashamed about. And if other people look at you funny for suggesting that, then that's their ignorance and you should set them straight.

[jbcmh81]

Originally Posted by bjimmy24

We get accused of boosterism for saying anything good about Ohio.

But trust me, I spread the word in my offline life as well. I think more and more people actually do view the state more positively than they used to. Everybody I've shown around Cleveland has been really pleasantly surprised. So yes, they had low expectations, but they have totally been proven wrong. Things don't change overnight, but I think the state is going in the right direction and the rest of the people will follow eventually.

But there will always be haters.

Same here. I have friends here from all over the US, and I here jokes all the time about the Midwest or Ohio, as if we're all just simple farming folk who wouldn't know culture from a rock. It's kind of sad, actually.

[jbcmh81]

Originally Posted by Tenzo

The empiracal data seems to indicate otherwise despite your desire.

What empirical data would that be?

[Cleveland_Collector]

Originally Posted by jbcmh81

Same here. I have friends here from all over the US, and I here jokes all the time about the Midwest or Ohio, as if we're all just simple farming folk who wouldn't know culture from a rock. It's kind of sad, actually.

It's just unwitting testimony to their own ignorance, truthfully.

I have pointed this out to several of my coastal friends on many occasions. In order to offer criticism, they must first have some reasonable knowledge of what they're even talking about.

[RememberMee]

I absolutely love Central Ohio weather & rolling terrain, not too hot, not too cold, not too sunny, not too gloomy, not too dry, not too wet, decent soils. Spring, Summers, early fall are unbeatable. I even low late fall and winter gloom, but I'm not an urban person, so I can't really relate to all those urbanites longing for amenities, "culture?", better education for the future generation of the rat racers and good jobs to pay for all of that.

Ohio is made of small & median towns populated by people so removed from the land that I can't even comprehend how that could have happened on such an abundant land. I guess, most residents are the descendants of the blue color industrial workforce those towns were built for. Shopping, getting stoned and eating fast food crap are major "cultural" attractions of small town Ohio robbed of its industrial backbone and purpose. Negative human selection is very real reflecting global economic reality where major metropolitan areas suck life, industries, brighter people & resources from the surrounding areas. Lock me in one of those small & medium Ohioan towns and I would be depressed as hell (just like most of the residents are). I guess I love Ohio without much of state of Ohio . Almost every day I imagine how this land looked like before Anglos messed it up.

[motorman]

^ Luvin' you, RememberMee, for your excess, denial, humor and truth--no contest, brother; say it like it is! (And forgive us our sins--after all, we in Ohio know not what we do.)

[jbcmh81]

Originally Posted by RememberMee

I absolutely love Central Ohio weather & rolling terrain, not too hot, not too cold, not too sunny, not too gloomy, not too dry, not too wet, decent soils. Spring, Summers, early fall are unbeatable. I even low late fall and winter gloom, but I'm not an urban person, so I can't really relate to all those urbanites longing for amenities, "culture?", better education for the future generation of the rat racers and good jobs to pay for all of that.

Ohio is made of small & median towns populated by people so removed from the land that I can't even comprehend how that could have happened on such an abundant land. I guess, most residents are the descendants of the blue color industrial workforce those towns were built for. Shopping, getting stoned and eating fast food crap are major "cultural" attractions of small town Ohio robbed of its industrial backbone and purpose. Negative human selection is very real reflecting global economic reality where major metropolitan areas suck life, industries, brighter people & resources from the surrounding areas. Lock me in one of those small & medium Ohioan towns and I would be depressed as hell (just like most of the residents are). I guess I love Ohio without much of state of Ohio . Almost every day I imagine how this land looked like before Anglos messed it up.

Yeah, I live somewhere now that only has 2 seasons... dry and not dry. It goes about 7 months with almost no rain at all, with sunshine most of it. Temps aren't too hot or cold either way, which makes choosing what to wear a bit easier and you can have a very nice cactus garden, but otherwise I find it terribly boring and I definitely miss the seasons or even the daily changes. There is nothing stranger to me than going through Christmas without cold and snow. Or Spring with no real blooming season. Or fall with no color. I almost treasure when it's cloudy.

The small town phenomenon you're referencing is happening everywhere, not just in Ohio. More and more people live in urbanized areas instead of rural or small towns, and many of them are slowly dying. A good example is the Great Plains. If you've ever seen large population change maps over the years, you'll notice that, while big cities tend to be growing there, many rural counties are losing population left and right. With farming mostly industrialized now, there's very little holding people to the land, as you say.