[bchris02]

Originally Posted by justanokie

I know of good liquor stores in OK that carry Fat Tire and Grolsch and just about any other beer. Find a good liquor store and they will try to order it for you if they don't have it. Still sucks.

Being able to buy real beer in grocery stores cold in OK is a long ways off imo. Practically no hope because the businesses don't want it. You would have to change not only the 3.2 laws but several other laws that were written dealing with alcoholic beverages because 3.2 isnt considered an "alcoholic beverage" by definition in Oklahoma. 1 biggie would be chain distribution of liquor laws.

Now before you run out and start driving around drinking 3.2 beer thinking that its all cool because its non-alcoholic by definition, they passed a law specifically saying you can't be carting around open containers of 3.2 beer. Wierd enough the fine for transporting an open container of "non-alcoholic" 3.2 beer is more than the fine for transporting an open container of Jim Beam. The first is "Transporting open container of non-alcoholic beverage" and the second is "Transporting an open container of an alcoholic beverage".

Oklahoma is still largely under the Volstead Act.

A lot of people blame the 'liquor lobby' but the people who are really responsible for the laws are the religious conservatives who believe alcohol to be a sin and have done all they can legally do to keep people from accessing it. If there is another campaign to change the laws soon, expect pastors and clergymen all across the state to plead with their congregations to vote to keep things the way they are.

Rural Oklahoma will likely vote completely against any change. OKC will probably be divided and Tulsa will probably be for the change. I think the best option, though some people don't like this idea, is to model after Arkansas' system and allow counties to vote themselves wet or dry. Wet counties can sell full strength beer and wine cold in the grocery stores. Rural Oklahomans who want to keep their citizens away from the evils of alcohol will then have the right to ban it in their counties.

[bchris02]

Also, the laws concerning liquor stores are the way they are to prevent the return of saloons run by the big brewers. That was largely popular from 1890-1910 and those places were seen as houses of sin and debauchery. Today, those laws are guaranteeing Oklahoma consumers have fewer and inferior choices than people in other states and is kills the state's craft beer and brewhouse industry. Beer brewed in Oklahoma to be consumed on premises has to be 3.2 because of the law.

[okie1962]

Originally Posted by bchris02

I think the best option, though some people don't like this idea, is to model after Arkansas' system and allow counties to vote themselves wet or dry. Wet counties can sell full strength beer and wine cold in the grocery stores. Rural Oklahomans who want to keep their citizens away from the evils of alcohol will then have the right to ban it in their counties.

Back in the 90s when I was a sales rep and traveled through Arkansas all the time, when a country was dry, it was bone dry. That meant no beer or liquor sales at all. Is it still that way in Arkansas?

In a dry Oklahoma County, beer and liquor can still be sold, just no mixed drinks at bars.

[bchris02]

Originally Posted by okie1962

Back in the 90s when I was a sales rep and traveled through Arkansas all the time, when a country was dry, it was bone dry. That meant no beer or liquor sales at all. Is it still that way in Arkansas?

In a dry Oklahoma County, beer and liquor can still be sold, just no mixed drinks at bars.

Dry Arkansas counties now have 'Private clubs' in which if you pay a membership fee you can buy alcohol. A lot of restaurants are going that route. No liquor stores or alcohol in grocery and convenient stores in dry counties however.

I think such a system, though some that are advocates for more liberal laws would consider it backwards, would be a step forward for Oklahoma and be the best compromise for this state. I'm sorry to say this, but going after the Missouri model - pretty much total freedom - will never pass in Oklahoma. Allowing individual counties to set their own laws would allow counties like Oklahoma and Tulsa to get the more liberal laws they've wanted for decades and counties like LeFlore to get their ideal - total prohibition.

[bchris02]

Originally Posted by justanokie

I know of good liquor stores in OK that carry Fat Tire and Grolsch and just about any other beer. Find a good liquor store and they will try to order it for you if they don't have it. Still sucks.

Being able to buy real beer in grocery stores cold in OK is a long ways off imo. Practically no hope because the businesses don't want it. You would have to change not only the 3.2 laws but several other laws that were written dealing with alcoholic beverages because 3.2 isnt considered an "alcoholic beverage" by definition in Oklahoma. 1 biggie would be chain distribution of liquor laws.

Now before you run out and start driving around drinking 3.2 beer thinking that its all cool because its non-alcoholic by definition, they passed a law specifically saying you can't be carting around open containers of 3.2 beer. Wierd enough the fine for transporting an open container of "non-alcoholic" 3.2 beer is more than the fine for transporting an open container of Jim Beam. The first is "Transporting open container of non-alcoholic beverage" and the second is "Transporting an open container of an alcoholic beverage".

Where can you buy Fat Tire in OKC? The liquor store I go to usually doesn't carry it and it is widely considered to be one of the best in the city.

[SluggoF16]

Originally Posted by okie1962

Back in the 90s when I was a sales rep and traveled through Arkansas all the time, when a country was dry, it was bone dry. That meant no beer or liquor sales at all. Is it still that way in Arkansas?

In a dry Oklahoma County, beer and liquor can still be sold, just no mixed drinks at bars.

Arkansas dry counties outnumber wet counties. Yet, as with nearly everything, there are exceptions. In some towns such as Altus, with the wineries, sales on Sunday are OK, and growlers of beer can be purchased on Sundays from the handful of breweries throughout the state. When I lived in the Fort Smith area there are two districts in Sebastian County which has two county seats. The district of Greenwood was dry and the district of Fort Smith was, to hear one of my neighbors, a veritable Sodom and Gomorrah of drunken debauchery. No sales on Sunday unless you go to a "private" club, of which Olive Garden is one. Crawford County across the river is dry, but Washington County including Fayetteville and UofA and Dickson Street is not.

The patchwork of laws makes for a very confusing mess at times, such as the "moist" counties in Texas.

[bchris02]

Originally Posted by SluggoF16

Arkansas dry counties outnumber wet counties. Yet, as with nearly everything, there are exceptions. In some towns such as Altus, with the wineries, sales on Sunday are OK, and growlers of beer can be purchased on Sundays from the handful of breweries throughout the state. When I lived in the Fort Smith area there are two districts in Sebastian County which has two county seats. The district of Greenwood was dry and the district of Fort Smith was, to hear one of my neighbors, a veritable Sodom and Gomorrah of drunken debauchery. No sales on Sunday unless you go to a "private" club, of which Olive Garden is one. Crawford County across the river is dry, but Washington County including Fayetteville and UofA and Dickson Street is not.

The patchwork of laws makes for a very confusing mess at times, such as the "moist" counties in Texas.

Good rundown on how it works in Arkansas. The Arkansas system, though confusing, is a step forward in my opinion from Oklahoma's where everyone is restricted and consumer choice suffers in urban areas because of the backward views on alcohol in the rural areas.

[StillwaterTownie]

Originally Posted by bchris02

Dry Arkansas counties now have 'Private clubs' in which if you pay a membership fee you can buy alcohol. A lot of restaurants are going that route. No liquor stores or alcohol in grocery and convenient stores in dry counties however.

I think such a system, though some that are advocates for more liberal laws would consider it backwards, would be a step forward for Oklahoma and be the best compromise for this state. I'm sorry to say this, but going after the Missouri model - pretty much total freedom - will never pass in Oklahoma. Allowing individual counties to set their own laws would allow counties like Oklahoma and Tulsa to get the more liberal laws they've wanted for decades and counties like LeFlore to get their ideal - total prohibition.

Once again, I'm skeptical that it's hard to reform some state laws because conservative church people would vote them down. Since the year 2000, when has a proposal to change a law in which conservative church people would likely be against not fail to pass? (It wasn't even necessary for a vote of the people to legalize tattoo application.) One example of a change in law that passed from the vote of the people was that liquor stores could open as usual on election days.

In my opinion, it's the liquor store owners that are most actively against changes, like permitting sales of wine in grocery stores. True, though, the proposal to allow wine to be sold in grocery stores recognizes opposition from small rural counties, and so attempts to compromise with them by confining application of the policy only to the 15 most populated counties. Figuring out how to compromise can work. Perhaps a contributing factor behind why liquor by the drink passed in Oklahoma back in 1984 was that it excluded Sunday and holiday sales. But counties later had the option of removing that prohibition, and many did.

[SluggoF16]

My first 3.2 beer was in the early 80s, coming from the Phoenix area and college it was certainly a culture shock. Whereas in the past a few Coors Lights would generate a buzz and an increased urgency to use the restroom, the 3.2 beer only did the latter. At the AFB Officers' Club I was at the beers of choice were Moosehead and Heineken because they had the "OK+" on the bottle.

On a similar but off-track topic, if you ever want to get an Oklahoma winemaker riled up, ask for his/her opinion of the wine distribution rules in this state. You will get an ear-full and it will run the gamut of reasons already covered in the previous posts in this forum, including taxes, religion, politics, tradition, plus the near-monopoly the distributors have.

[linicx]

I remember when OK was a BYOB to bars/clubs and a Blue state. You could not buy a baby bottle on Sunday. It's improved. You can buy unadulterated wine, mixed drinks, and nearbeer (3.2) but you still can't buy regular Bud. I lived 10 mi from the Missouri border and stocked up on Sunday every week, but I bought wine a couple of blocks from the house.

Some one should tell thosee good busybodies it is possible to get drunker than a lord on 3.2 beer. It just takes longer.