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Old 06-23-2011, 06:56 AM
 
6,484 posts, read 6,615,509 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DentalFloss View Post
That is not the question.

We live in a free country, which means (amongst other things) that anything that is not specifically and explicitly prohibited is allowed, and that government needs to show a good reason why any given action should be banned. Ergo, the question is NOT why should same-gender marriage be legal, the question is why should it NOT be legal.

There is no good answer to that question.
Unless you go against the very definition of what something is. By definition, "marriage" is an opposite-gender couple--usually coming together to procreate and raise a family.

 
Old 06-23-2011, 07:02 AM
 
2,677 posts, read 2,616,360 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calvinist View Post
Unless you go against the very definition of what something is.
Definitions change. Gay once meant happy. Linux once meant nothing. History is not static, nor will it ever be. Webster's dictionary reports the meanings of words, it doesn't dictate them, and when definitions change in common usage, the dictionary reflects those changes.
 
Old 06-23-2011, 07:07 AM
 
1,073 posts, read 2,686,108 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calvinist View Post
Unless you go against the very definition of what something is. By definition, "marriage" is an opposite-gender couple--usually coming together to procreate and raise a family.
The definition you are using is ONE definition of the word marriage. You realize that most words in our language have nuanced and varied meanings depending upon context? You have this habit of giving extremely narrow and incomplete arguments. To illustrate another use of the word marriage, one can have a marriage of flavors in cooking, for example.

According to Merriam-Webster.com (bold/italics added by me):

mar·riage noun \ˈmer-ij, ˈma-rij\
Definition of MARRIAGE

1
a (1) : the state of being united to a person of the opposite sex as husband or wife in a consensual and contractual relationship recognized by law (2) : the state of being united to a person of the same sex in a relationship like that of a traditional marriage <same-sex marriage>
b : the mutual relation of married persons : wedlock
c : the institution whereby individuals are joined in a marriage
2
: an act of marrying or the rite by which the married status is effected; especially : the wedding ceremony and attendant festivities or formalities
3
: an intimate or close union <the marriage of painting and poetry — J. T. Shawcross>
 
Old 06-23-2011, 07:16 AM
 
2,677 posts, read 2,616,360 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calvinist View Post
I believe morality is given to us by God, and he sets the standard.
So, several hundred years ago, when it was considered immoral for a proper lady to expose her ankle in public, was the standard different than today, or did they (or us) simply not do it right?
 
Old 06-23-2011, 07:38 AM
 
6,484 posts, read 6,615,509 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DentalFloss View Post
So, several hundred years ago, when it was considered immoral for a proper lady to expose her ankle in public, was the standard different than today, or did they (or us) simply not do it right?
apples/oranges. men still married women and women married men.
 
Old 06-23-2011, 07:42 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calvinist View Post
apples/oranges. men still married women and women married men.
No, not apples and oranges. You stated that god gave us our morality, so I'm asking you about gods moral standard regarding the exposure of womens ankles. It was once considered immoral, by society, and now it is not.

Did we get it wrong before, compared to gods standard, or do we have it wrong now.

And regardless of your answer, the more important question is... How do you know???
 
Old 06-23-2011, 08:11 AM
 
6,484 posts, read 6,615,509 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DentalFloss View Post
No, not apples and oranges. You stated that god gave us our morality, so I'm asking you about gods moral standard regarding the exposure of womens ankles. It was once considered immoral, by society, and now it is not.
Did we get it wrong before, compared to gods standard, or do we have it wrong now.

And regardless of your answer, the more important question is... How do you know???
I'm not aware of any Bible verse that talks about a woman's ankles being exposed. Could you point that one out to me?

In any event, even secular society has always defined marriage as male/female. It's what marriage is.

You might as well go down to the baseball stadium to watch a hockey game with your logic.
 
Old 06-23-2011, 08:19 AM
 
2,677 posts, read 2,616,360 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calvinist View Post
I'm not aware of any Bible verse that talks about a woman's ankles being exposed.
I'm not talking about the bible, I'm talking about gods moral instructions to us, which you unequivocally stated exists.

Therefore, it is one of two possibilities. God considers exposed ankles immoral, in which case our present society is doing it wrong. Or he does not consider exposed ankles immoral, in which case our past society got it wrong. Since god gave us our morality, and the issue of exposed ankles is a moral question, god has an answer.

What is it, and from where did you find it?

Or, if that's too obscure, how about this.

Is it moral or immoral for a woman to sun topless at the beach? Is it moral or immoral for a man to sun topless at the beach? How do you know??
 
Old 06-23-2011, 09:22 AM
 
2,677 posts, read 2,616,360 times
Reputation: 1491
Quote:
Originally Posted by Calvinist View Post
I'm not the one trying to change the definition of marriage and force everyone to live by my definition of it.
Do explain how your life will be changed by allowing gays to marry? Will you marriage fall apart? Will you be forced to marry a man? Will strange gay men from San Francisco invade your home and force you to participate in gay orgies while watching gay porn with interracial gay midgets??

Please, please for the love of all that is holy, please explain to me what in your life will be different the day after gay marriage passes.

My gratitude in advance.
 
Old 06-23-2011, 09:49 AM
 
Location: Omaha, NE
306 posts, read 714,263 times
Reputation: 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by DentalFloss View Post
I'm not talking about the bible, I'm talking about gods moral instructions to us, which you unequivocally stated exists.

Therefore, it is one of two possibilities. God considers exposed ankles immoral, in which case our present society is doing it wrong. Or he does not consider exposed ankles immoral, in which case our past society got it wrong. Since god gave us our morality, and the issue of exposed ankles is a moral question, god has an answer.
The Law, in particular summarized by Ten Commandments.
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