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There are plenty of school teachers working in SF, LA, and NY, and no, they aren't all using low income housing. Your scenarios are always unrealistic and simply wrong.
"If housing prices rise too high no one will teach kids or serve coffee in those areas"
"If you risk any capital in business, you will starve and die"
The reason you cannot afford to live in a desirable area is because you are simply not successful enough to be able to live there. Plain and simple.
Do you drive a Ferrari? A Porsche?
Do you own a Rolex?
Coastal OC property falls into the category of luxury spending. You do NOT NEED to live in a desirable area of OC to survive. You WANT to live in a nice area of OC, but you do not NEED to live there.
So drop the altruistic schick with the Bernie Sanders, democratic socialism, universal basic income, the simple fact is you are a young kid who was forced to live in Gilbert Arizona because you couldn't afford OC, and now you spend the majority of your time on this forum bitching about why you couldn't afford it. Just call it what it is, envy and greed. You want something that you can't have, you're just as selfish as the capitalist you're trying to tear down. You're actually a little worse because you want to implement policies that hurt everyone who you're jealous and envious of.
Also, I notice you avoid the topic of Bernie Sanders owning 3 houses and having multi-million dollar wealth like the plague because it doesn't fit into your idealistic image of your idol.
Because those "socialist" cities you hate so much are actually putting land into the hands of the non-profits and government and pass laws that prohibit the market from driving up rent prices to insane levels. Because of these "socialist" cities is why it still functions because you still have people not making $1M or people driving Porsche's everywhere buying up that land.
As much as I like to be blunt with you, logically, deregulation doesn't work morally and socially due to a capitalist society because of the primary driver: greed. If you regulate the correct way (and this is up for interpretation), then it will work and be just fine, otherwise, civil unrest will happen as history tells us. The free market doesn't "lower" prices just because, it jacks them as high up as possible as long as there's a buyer and doesn't care about anything else, which brings me back to one of the cons of having a capitalist society: disregard for morality.
This is a conceptual/economic discussion, not even political, but they are inter-related. There's 2 political ideologies: more regulation or less, Democratic or Republican, Liberal or Conservative. Based on my previous explanations already, only 1 works realistically not ideologically. If you don't want to believe me, then I'll question your logic and reading comprehension skills, if you do understand what I'm saying but not caring anyways then sure, class warfare has started and you're not helping by being stuck up in your ideologies. The same as how you rather have the free market drive out our own citizens from their homes due to them not being able to afford it by overseas investors because of your idea of economic freedom, not because you care about America's own families and their lives and the inequilibrium that this will cause in the local economy, etc...
Here's my question to you since you state, I don't NEED to live in OC or Coastal OC, ok great I don't NEED it, fine I accept it. But I NEED to live somewhere. What happens if that somewhere has rent that is at a level that is like San Francisco-DTLA-NYC-<insert your downtown>? I have no choice but to be homeless because my income does not match the required market rate of any housing in the entire area. You think me being homeless is a choice I WANT to make? Because I didn't study hard enough? Already earning 2 degrees? I can't control the MARKET, but I NEED TO LIVE somewhere. How ridiculous can you be.
Plus, there is NOTHING that says OC was desirable, remove human civilization and OC was just a piece of land. It's our economic system that generates that wealth and desriability. To say OC is meant to "only" to be had by the wealthy, you're the selfish guy who has all the money who says, we have a drought? ahhh who cares, I'll waste 50k gallons of water anyways cause I can pay for it. Defined as being a snob and only making the class warfare issue worst. Go ahead, live in your little ideological world. I gave you almost a whole conceptual intro to a macroeconomics course and you still aren't seeing why is there such a thing as "Liberals" but sure, whatever. I'm tired of being patient and wasting my energy cause you're arrogant and ignorant and nothing will change your mind period. Not even someone who holds a PhD in economics can change your mind, which says you don't respect their education but rather your own ideology. /endofdiscussion
Because those "socialist" cities you hate so much are actually putting land into the hands of the non-profits and government and pass laws that prohibit the market from driving up rent prices to insane levels. Because of these "socialist" cities is why it still functions because you still have people not making $1M or people driving Porsche's everywhere buying up that land.
Rent control actually squeezes the supply of rentals for people like you. That's why SF, NYC, and LA have such shortages of units. Also housing authorities in those cities put a lot of red tape in front of developers to build residential units, which in turn also raises the cost of development, which in turn is passed to guys like you. Regulation does not help low-mid wage earners like you.
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This is a conceptual/economic discussion, not even political, but they are inter-related. There's 2 political ideologies: more regulation or less, Democratic or Republican, Liberal or Conservative. Based on my previous explanations already, only 1 works realistically not ideologically. If you don't want to believe me, then I'll question your logic and reading comprehension skills, if you do understand what I'm saying but not caring anyways then sure, class warfare has started and you're not helping by being stuck up in your ideologies. The same as how you rather have the free market drive out our own citizens from their homes due to them not being able to afford it by overseas investors because of your idea of economic freedom, not because you care about America's own families and their lives and the inequilibrium that this will cause in the local economy, etc...
There are plenty of families who live in the neighborhoods where I own in OC. So no, your point that families are getting pushed out by market forces is simply wrong. Lower wage earners are being pushed out, but high wage earners with families are doing just fine. Many of them own much larger homes than I do.
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Here's my question to you since you state, I don't NEED to live in OC or Coastal OC, ok great I don't NEED it, fine I accept it. But I NEED to live somewhere. What happens if that somewhere has rent that is at a level that is like San Francisco-DTLA-NYC-<insert your downtown>? I have no choice but to be homeless because my income does not match the required market rate of any housing in the entire area. You think me being homeless is a choice I WANT to make? Because I didn't study hard enough? Already earning 2 degrees? I can't control the MARKET, but I NEED TO LIVE somewhere. How ridiculous can you be.
Great, when you're in that predicament, you move to Gilbert, Arizona where you can actually afford to live. Is that not what you did? It seems like in your life, you actually answered your own question. By your own admission, your choices weren't only "live in OC" or "become homeless", you moved away. That's a perfectly valid scenario that happens every day in OC or Silicon Valley or SF.
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Plus, there is NOTHING that says OC was desirable, remove human civilization and OC was just a piece of land. It's our economic system that generates that wealth and desriability. To say OC is meant to "only" to be had by the wealthy, you're the selfish guy who has all the money who says, we have a drought? ahhh who cares, I'll waste 50k gallons of water anyways cause I can pay for it. Defined as being a snob and only making the class warfare issue worst. Go ahead, live in your little ideological world. I gave you almost a whole conceptual intro to a macroeconomics course and you still aren't seeing why is there such a thing as "Liberals" but sure, whatever. I'm tired of being patient and wasting my energy cause you're arrogant and ignorant and nothing will change your mind period. Not even someone who holds a PhD in economics can change your mind, which says you don't respect their education but rather your own ideology. /endofdiscussion
This is a ridiculous argument.
"OC is just land, nothing more". I thought we went over this already. OC has pleasant weather year round, healthy and strong job market, and wages are high across the board. Schools are excellent (despite your claims that teachers wouldn't be able to teach in OC because of cost), and crime is extremely low compared to other parts of the country. People are paying for all of the above, at a rate that you simply cannot afford.
Your tantrum has been entertaining, if not a little sad. For all of your effort, you're still not closer to owning in OC, and with the attitude you have about how evil capitalism is (even though your hero Bernie "3 houses" Sanders is a practitioner of capitalism himself), you will never be.
I was thinking you'd read my post above already regarding pointing fingers at groups of people just because something we're having problems. Illegals aren't SOLELY the cause of the problem, they might not help the problem, but it's not their fault.
Here's something to think about, yeah the laws are set and made and meant to be enforced by the state.
Who said though it was moral to execute that enforcement?
OH so it is moral to pas a law to protect people and then ignore it??? I am curious as to what you think is moral, rather than what benefits you?
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Here's 1 example:
Back in the civil rights era, it was illegal for whites and blacks to be in the same schools and drink the same water. You could be sent to jail for that. So technically yes if a black person went to drink at a white person's fountain, they could be sent to jail and vice versa. It's the law so it was enforced. Is it morally right? No and that took the entire civil rights movement, plenty of action, protests, and including deaths of civil rights leaders to push changes through nationally.
Apples and Orange comparison. What are YOU doing to change the law to then allow poor pay for illegals. Wait you mean you don't think it is moral to enforce a law to protect people not hurt them???
You are not thinking clearly.
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This same idea applies to illegal immigrants. You first have to understand where did they come from, when, and how. Without understanding this and resulting to the conclusion to kick them all out is immoral to me and not right. What if a 1 year old child was brought here 20 years ago? He/She didn't even know what the heck law is at that time and you deport them? Sounds unfair.
There are various COMPLEX issues that deals with one larger national issue. Trump is probably just beginning to realize this and if you've been following the news lately as I have. The GOP in the damn legislature scares the hell out of me. They're removing regulations left and right, REGARDLESS because they're so damn driven by ideology.
You also have a reading comprehension problem. In my posts on this I did not say deport them, I said enforce the law and pay them according to it. You obviously do not want that to happen. This explains why you have 2 degrees and can't get a job that would allow you to live in SoCal. I was from a poor family, graduated from HS and never went to college and I can afford to live there. It is called hard work, effort and using your brain for something other than just ideological desires. You are exposing your problem, you want others, like the Government to force society to let you live as you want. It does not work. Yes total Conservatism favors the rich. But total Liberalism does the same. How poor is Hillary, Bernie and the other leaders of that party?
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Edit:
Let me respond to:
As much as I love to trust our fellow citizens, the nature of capitalists will pit us against each other (just look back a few pages back at this thread and see other's responses to my complaint that there's no affordable housing in OC) to see who can survive/make the most money (and competition will get dirty). Therefore, as much as I'd like to see it that way, naturally we will compete and harm others if we don't have the government because we need to survive. The government is there to act as the buffer, the neutralizer you can consider, the safety net.
This is also why there has been ideas being floated around called "basic income" in European countries, where everyone is guaranteed the minimum essentials for life so that we don't have to compete so viciously, but the bargain is, if you want something more than food and a place to live, you have to work.
There is section 8 housing for the poor on OC. The fact that not everyone who wants to can live in OC, for example, is simply life. If everyone who wanted to could, they still could not as there is not enough land. No ideology can change facts of life like limited space. Basic Income would not help in OC either. The idea sounds good, but it will never work. Learn the difference between ideology and reality. Maybe get a 3rd degree.
Hi everyone, it is so interesting to see the passionate viewpoints in this thread. I am reading because I might move back to OC after being away for all of my working life. My story is that after getting two degrees, I moved out of state for a PhD, then even further away to practice my career for 30 yrs. A lot has happened during that time including a considerable population increase and the changeover of the types of jobs people have, since now so much manufacturing comes from overseas. Plus the emphasis on the internet has changed what skill sets employers are looking for.
BUT, there is a big country out there that is not just California. There are lots of jobs and opportunities for just about anyone who is presentable and eager to work in other parts of the country. No one should be so stuck on where they are living that they won't move to better themselves. Why do you suppose people are willing to work in places with lots of snow or wind or hurricanes or whatever you are afraid of? People do it and they don't complain. No one has nailed your shoes to the floor. If it doesn't work for you today in California just move. There are tons of great places to be where your livelihood will be more secure and you will be way less stressed out.
problem is when you have a spouse who is making great in his/her career. you can not just force your better half to relocate.
relocating can be done when only one is breadwinner
You miss the point. You are looking for reasons to say: "I can not because...."
The message here is: "Find a way..."
Not try to duplicate others' success story then say I can not duplicate your path because.. But rather, recognize what others are telling you is when an opportunity came up, they considered it careful and when they decided it was worth the risk, they took it..
Everyone has different situations. What has worked on one may not work for others. You need to find your own opportunities.
Because those "socialist" cities you hate so much are actually putting land into the hands of the non-profits and government and pass laws that prohibit the market from driving up rent prices to insane levels. Because of these "socialist" cities is why it still functions because you still have people not making $1M or people driving Porsche's everywhere buying up that land.
As much as I like to be blunt with you, logically, deregulation doesn't work morally and socially due to a capitalist society because of the primary driver: greed. If you regulate the correct way (and this is up for interpretation), then it will work and be just fine, otherwise, civil unrest will happen as history tells us. The free market doesn't "lower" prices just because, it jacks them as high up as possible as long as there's a buyer and doesn't care about anything else, which brings me back to one of the cons of having a capitalist society: disregard for morality.
This is a conceptual/economic discussion, not even political, but they are inter-related. There's 2 political ideologies: more regulation or less, Democratic or Republican, Liberal or Conservative. Based on my previous explanations already, only 1 works realistically not ideologically. If you don't want to believe me, then I'll question your logic and reading comprehension skills, if you do understand what I'm saying but not caring anyways then sure, class warfare has started and you're not helping by being stuck up in your ideologies. The same as how you rather have the free market drive out our own citizens from their homes due to them not being able to afford it by overseas investors because of your idea of economic freedom, not because you care about America's own families and their lives and the inequilibrium that this will cause in the local economy, etc...
Here's my question to you since you state, I don't NEED to live in OC or Coastal OC, ok great I don't NEED it, fine I accept it. But I NEED to live somewhere. What happens if that somewhere has rent that is at a level that is like San Francisco-DTLA-NYC-<insert your downtown>? I have no choice but to be homeless because my income does not match the required market rate of any housing in the entire area. You think me being homeless is a choice I WANT to make? Because I didn't study hard enough? Already earning 2 degrees? I can't control the MARKET, but I NEED TO LIVE somewhere. How ridiculous can you be.
Plus, there is NOTHING that says OC was desirable, remove human civilization and OC was just a piece of land. It's our economic system that generates that wealth and desriability. To say OC is meant to "only" to be had by the wealthy, you're the selfish guy who has all the money who says, we have a drought? ahhh who cares, I'll waste 50k gallons of water anyways cause I can pay for it. Defined as being a snob and only making the class warfare issue worst. Go ahead, live in your little ideological world. I gave you almost a whole conceptual intro to a macroeconomics course and you still aren't seeing why is there such a thing as "Liberals" but sure, whatever. I'm tired of being patient and wasting my energy cause you're arrogant and ignorant and nothing will change your mind period. Not even someone who holds a PhD in economics can change your mind, which says you don't respect their education but rather your own ideology. /endofdiscussion
I sincerely wish the following things for you:
That you succeed in your career and or other personal pursuits;
That you are able to move to OC if that is what you want; and
That you outgrow your current beliefs as I did.
I can't wait for Trump to cut all these social programs so the POOR will be priced out of CA and FORCED to move to the poorer more affordable Red States.
Make CA great again!
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